Cleaning without disassembly?

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rdmercer

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I haven't shot my BP pistols since 2009 and would like to start again. I just got tired of the cleaning process. Can I successfully clean without total disassembly? After removing cylinders and unscrewing nipples and grips can I soak the whole frame in hot soapy water, followed by hot water under pressure to rinse it out, followed by hot air thru a hair dryer? And lube with veggy oil? Would that be sufficient? I have Colt and Remington type frames.
 
I do something similar and haven't had any trouble but it's pretty dry here. Other people do that if they think they'll shoot it again fairly soon and then break it down all the way occasionally.

One trick is to clean with diluted ballistol - that way whatever dries inside will leave a thin layer of oil behind. It's black powder safe since it was developed when black powder was more mainstream.
 
Thats what i did last night, i shot 2 of mine yesterday but i didnt want to tear them both all the way down so i just removed the cylinders and let them soak in hot soapy water. I then used a couple patches and dipped them in the water and ran them threw the barrels. This loosened up the fouling and got most of it out. Then i pulled a 45 cal squeeg-e threw the bore.

I knew i was going to shoot them again today.

I did remove the nipples and spray air threw them after they soaked in the hot soapy water.

Ill probably do the same this time also because i shot 24 rounds yesterday and 18 today. I used pyrodex though so i dont let them sit more then a few hours with that stuff.
 
That's what I do, except I spray the frame and all other parts with WD-40 to RAISE the remaining water off the metal then wipe dry and re-oil.

WD means water displacement. :)
 
cleaning

When I am done shooting, I remove the grips and the cylinder. that is as far as I strip the gun. Pretty much, I do what has been described here. Soapy water, clean water rinse. Dryer. One thing that I do that is a little different is that, after drying, I douse the gun with denatured alcohol. Alcohol also displaces water. Then I coat the bore with Eesox.
Been doing this for years with only minor changes. No corrosion.
Pete
 
If you are shooting a Colt clone, then removing the cylinder means you've already removed the barrel. If you've gone that far, then go ahead and scrub the barrel in water too.

A Remington, on the other hand, is more of a problem as the barrel is affixed to the frame which also includes the grips. Immersion in water is not an option, so all you can do is swab out the barrel from the muzzle with water. For a quick cleaning, after removing the cylinder and unscrewing the nipples, I stuff the cylinder window a rag so as to keep as much of the water as possible out of the works. Of course a really thorough cleaning, once a year or so, involves total disassembly and good soak and scrub.

Personally I don't bother with soapy water. All the soap will do is remove any remaining lubrication from the metal. Water is known as the "universal solvent" and will remove BP fouling just fine by itself. I use plain old hot water, as hot as it comes from the tap, dunk the cylinder and the disassembled nipples, as well as the barrel, in a pan with the hot water, and let them soak while I wipe down the frame. I scrub cruddy areas out with an old toothbrush. I then swab the barrel and cylinder out with a tight patch, pumping the water up and down through the bores. I follow up with a dry patch. I wipe everything down with a dry rag, then a rag with Ballistol. I run a Ballistol-soaked patch through the bore and the cylinder chambers, lube the nipple threads with Ballistol, and reassemble. I have no rust or crud on any of my pistols using this process.

I don't bother with a soapy wash and fresh rinse, using the wife's dishwasher, baking the pistol in the convection oven, blowing things out with an air compressor, or tying the thing on the roof rack of the car and driving at 80 mph on the freeway. I pretty much do it the way our forefathers, who used these guns every day and did not have all of this modern stuff to complicate their lives, did it.

(To be perfectly honest, hot water is not really necessary - cold works just as good for cleaning. It's just that hot water feels more comfortable to get my hands in and doesn't rile up my arthritis as does cold.)

The only real "modern" concession, and even that is over 100 years old, is the Ballistol. If you are not familiar, Ballistol is a mineral oil formulated and adopted by the Germans to use as a kind of universal cleaner and lubricant - sort of like a Black Powder CLP - for use on their early Mauser repeaters. It is soluble in water (where it contacts water it turns white) so if the pistol is not bone dry it just mixes with the water that's there and still works - the water eventually evaporates leaving the mineral oil behind. Unlike modern petroleum oils it does not react with the BP fouling to form "blacktop". And it's not toxic - in Europe it is sometimes taken by the tablespoon full to soothe stomach ailments, and can even be used as disinfectant on minor cuts and wounds. What's not to like?
 
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I tried this for the first time last weekend.

Having gone to the range with 2 pistols and a rifle, and getting home rather late, I decided to try what other's have written about and sprayed them down with Ballistol and gave them all a quick wipe down.

The next day I scrubbed them in nothing but warm water, and then sprayed them with more Ballistol.

I noticed that it took a little more effort than when I scrubbed them immediately using hot water and a little dish soap.

I find it odd that I read all too often how a few patches and 20 minutes is all it takes. I use well over a dozen and it can easily take an hour before my patches are clean. I recently bought a bore mop for my rifle, and will be buying a few more.
 
Remember that the Civil War cavalryman didn't detail strip his revolver. Key points to clean are the cylinder, barrel, nipples and the exterior of the frame.
 
I find it odd that I read all too often how a few patches and 20 minutes is all it takes. I use well over a dozen and it can easily take an hour before my patches are clean.
Yes ROWDHA, this works on my pistols but the old Winchester '73 takes a lot of patches even when I shoot smokeless. I trust a good oiling with non petroleum oil will keep it rust free.
Occasionally I will take the magazine tube off also and put the barrel in a pail of hot soapy water and scrub the heck out of it.
 
Thanks for all the responses. Now I am quite interested in BP shooting again. I always used GOEX real BP. I remember that when I used soapy hot water and flushed with pressure down the barrel, that it only took two or three patches thru the barrel and they came out clean. I have never seen Ballistol on any shelf in stores over the years. Do any national chain stores carry it or do you have to order it? And I have 4 unopened cans of GOEX that are 7 years old. If I need more, can you still buy it and where?
 
I've always had to order Ballistol from one of the big sporting internet retailers: Cabelas or Midway USA.

By the way, I never buy the aerosol version, simply because you only get a little bit of the product and the rest of the can is propellant, such as butane. If I want butane I'll buy a cheap BIC lighter! I only buy the liquid.

As to spraying the revolver down with Ballistol to put off cleaning until the next day, it seems wasteful to me. If using an aerosol can a whole lot of the product misses the target and goes who knows where. What you can do is mix up some "Moose Milk", which is a 50/50 mixture (if I remember correctly) of Ballistol and water. I mix it in an old Windex bottle. I tried the technique of spraying the revolver down with it before leaving the range, but all I got was a bad smelling slimy greasy revolver out of it. I still had to clean it in water when I got home.

I decant the Ballistol into a plastic squeeze bottle for precise dispensing onto a patch or on to a specific part that gets lubed.

I don't think there's any way to effectively put off cleaning for a day or two. You just have to knuckle down and clean it as soon as you get home, and that's it. Shouldn't take more than a half-hour and a half-dozed patches or so.
 
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"Shouldn't take more than a half-hour and a half-dozed patches or so."

That's what I keep reading, but is far from my experience.

"I don't think there's any way to effectively put off cleaning for a day or two."

I tried it and it worked. I'd prefer to clean it ASAP though.
 
I have noticed that patching it out with Ballistol at the range makes them much easier to clean at home. I don't soak them in it just wet patches in the bores and chambers and wipe the whole pistol down. It seems to keep the fouling from hardening up. It cleans up nice with hot tap water at home, more than 20 minutes but definitely less than an hour.
 
I'll be purchasing bore mops for the range, and trying things until I can find a way to make final clean up easier. It's obviously something I'm not doing or not doing right.
 
A Remington, on the other hand, is more of a problem as the barrel is affixed to the frame which also includes the grips. Immersion in water is not an option, so all you can do is swab out the barrel from the muzzle with water. For a quick cleaning, after removing the cylinder and unscrewing the nipples, I stuff the cylinder window a rag so as to keep as much of the water as possible out of the works. Of course a really thorough cleaning, once a year or so, involves total disassembly and good soak and scrub.

Not really, i will sometimes remove the grips just incase but ill dunk only the top half of the gun in the water. This is enough to soak the whole barrel.

I can push a brass brush threw it a few times then dunk it again and all the crud starts to REALLY flow then. Since i dunk it upside down, none of the action parts get wet if im careful. This way i dont have to remove any of them. If i get a cap jam or the action starts to get tight then ill tear it all down but lately the cap fragments have been nice to me with these 2 guns.

For me it depends more on the gun. I have a few i care more about and those get the full treatment everytime i take them out. These 2 ive been shooting the past few trips are not in the best condition. Im trying to sort of fire lap some rust in the barrels out of them so they arnt getting the full treatment till ive run a few rounds threw em then ill give em a good clean.
 
Howdy

No, you do not have to take a gun completely apart to clean it after shooting it with Black Powder.

Disclaimer: There are those on this board who do not see why I clean my guns this way rather than just using hot water. Hopefully, the reasons will become plain after reading this.

When I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968 I too used to completely take it apart to clean it every time I shot it.

We all know that hot water is probably the best cleaning solution in existence for Black Powder fouling. The problem with water is, how do you get it all out when you are done? Any water left inside the gun will cause rust. Yes, the standard answer is to heat the water so the steel is hot enough to drive out the water. I used to do that. I also used to put the gun parts in a warm oven to dry out the water. Too often flash rust would result from either of these methods. Flash rust is a dry, powdery layer of rust that can happen when water evaporates off of hot metal.

There had to be a better way.

One thing I have discovered over the years is that Black Powder fouling is not as corrosive as many of us believe. Ordinarily, Black Powder fouling is hygroscopic. This means it is very dry and absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. The moisture absorbed then causes any steel in contact with the fouling to corrode (rust). Traditionally, corrosion was caused by the combination of BP fouling AND corrosive primers and percussion caps. We don't use corrosive primers any more, so that's half the battle right there.

But here is an important discovery I made: If Black Powder fouling is saturated with oil, it becomes inert. It will no longer cause corrosion. Think of it as a sponge that has been saturated with water. Once saturated with oil it cannot absorb any water in the form of vapor from the atmosphere. The key is to infuse the fouling with oil. Once it is infused with oil, the fouling becomes harmless and will not cause any rust.

A number of years ago a fellow Black Powder shooter introduced me to Murphy's Mix. Murphy's Mix is a Black Powder cleaning solution made up of equal parts Murphy's Oil Soap, Rubbing Acohol, and drugstore Hydrogen Per Oxide. I buy the ingredients in the super market. I buy a quart of each and mix them in an opaque, three quart juice jug.

ingredients_zpsbf4ae6e9.jpg


When a Black Powder firearm is cleaned with Murphy's Mix, a couple of interesting things happen. The actual cleaning is accomplished by the water in the alcohol and the Hydrogen Per Oxide. Most drugstore alcohol is about 20% water and drugstore Hydrogen Per Oxide is only about 3% H2O2, the rest is water. So the water in the solution does the actual cleaning. The alcohol works as a drying agent, causing the water to evaporate more quickly, and the H2O2 provides a little bit of fizzing action to help lift any stubborn fouling. But when all the water has evaporated from the Murphy's Mix, the Murphy's Oil Soap is left behind as an oily deposit. This oily deposit then saturates any remaining Black Powder fouling rendering it unable to absorb any water from the atmosphere. The result is that the fouling is rendered harmless and will not cause any corrosion to any metal that it is in contact with.

My normal technique is to clean the firearm with Murphy's Mix. The key here is to use lots of it, don't be stingy. First clean the bore and chambers as usual, using patches and bore mops or whatever you usually use. dip your patches straight into some Murphy's Mix. Use it like you would use water. But here is the part you won't have thought of. Make sure to slop lots of it down inside the mechanism. With a revolver you can use Q-Tips to work some M Mix into the rectangular hole in the frame where the hand pokes through. You can also work some in to the slot in the frame where the hammer sits. Work in plenty, don't be stingy. How do you get it all out again? You don't. You just leave the M Mix down inside the mechanism. Those who like to inspect their firearms with white gloves will not be happy with this technique, because there will be lots of black, oily gunk down inside the gun. I don't take my guns completely apart to clean them more than once a year or so. There is always plenty of black, oily gunk down inside. There is never any rust. Because the water has evaporated from the M Mix, and the oil soap has remained, infusing the fouling with oil. As such, the oily fouling does not generate any rust, because there is no water present.

When I am done I run some full strength Ballistol down into the action, and I lightly coat the bore and chambers with Ballistol to lubricate the parts. Ballistol is relatively expensive, so I only use it sparingly at this point.

So.....why go through all this bother you may ask? Why make up this crazy chemical concoction? Why not simply use hot water?

1. You don't have to heat it. It works fine cold. That means you can clean the guns anywhere, you don't have to wait until you get indoors where you can heat stuff up. I can clean right at the range if I want to. Or at a Cowboy Action match I can clean my guns right at the car before going home. At a big away match, if camping or staying in a hotel, a couple of us will sit down and clean our guns at somebody's tent before driving to the hotel. Even better for those who are camping.

2. You don't have to completely take the gun apart. That saves a lot of time.

3. By not taking the gun apart, you are not putting extra wear and tear on screws and threaded holes. And you will not cross thread any holes.

I shoot nothing but Black Powder in CAS. Two pistols, a rifle and shotgun at every match. I usually go through around 20 pounds of Black Powder every year. It takes me about 1/2 hour to clean two revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun this way. This is the way I have been cleaning my guns for about ten years now. No rust.

It is even better with cartridge guns because unlike a percussion revolver, you can just leave some oil in the chambers. You don't have to swab out the oil, you don't have to fire any caps to burn out the oil. You just leave it in the chamber.
 
I did run alcohol on a Q-tip through my chambers and soaked the nipples in it in a cup to rid it of oil. I loaded one back up, and we'll see how it does at the range next month. I've not done anything like this before, but have too many accounts of doing similar things by saturating the fouling with oil, which makes some sense to me so I tried it. My guns lasted a couple of days, which is much longer than my rifle barrel lasted after using Pyrodex and reading many, without doing anything, could go a few days before cleaning. My rifle was a rusty mess!
 
Did a test today. I usually clean my rifle/handguns (BP) at the range when I finish shooting. My usual cleanser is 1 part Ballistol to 10 parts water. I just send fairly tight patches down the bore, maybe half a dozen or so, until they start coming out clean. Then a dry patch or two followed by a Ballistol only patch. Barrels done. Then I wipe down the exterior and home I go. Several people on the web have said that if I tried Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine, I wouldn't believe the stuff that would come out on a patch soaked with Bore Shine AFTER I had cleaned my way. I ordered some Bore Shine and tried it today. It was raining when I shot at the range ( we have a covered range) so fouling was plentiful in the damp, read wet, air. I shot 20 rounds of 45-70 using Swiss 1.5F. I shot 4 five shot groups. I cleaned between each group with my usual Ballistol and water mix. Between each shot in each group, I wiped with a spit dampened patch. After the shooting was over, I cleaned in my normal way. Then, I did as the instructions on the Bore Shine bottle recommended. The first bore shine patch came out white. The second and the third. So did the dry ones that followed. It failed to pick up and remove anything that was left behind by the Ballistol and water mix. I wasn't surprised as I have never had any problems doing it my way.
 
Easy just dont clean them

I know I know thats almost a stoning offense in the BP forum
but seriously I shoot mine I reload with plenty of grease and its still good to go next time i want it.

Im lucky or my shooters are lucky if they get a cleaning every 300 shots or 6 months.

I think a lot of people here spend a awfull lot of time on safe queens

I just like to shoot em big bang lots of smoke who cares if I ruin my 200 dollar
pietta replica BTW im finding that is hard to do many years thousands of shots and all i can say is the bluing is wearing of the barrell,cyl pin and loading lever no rust at all even inside the handle assembly is rust free.

:neener:

its just like careing for cast iron cookware
 
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Rdmercer, if you can't find Ballistol and you want to use a vegetable oil I'd suggest Canola oil over simple "vegetable" oil. I ran some tests on it and it actually protects against corrosion/rust really well.

But it DOES gum up over some amount of time. It does so by being exposed to heat, light and air. So if you go with any vegetable oil option then for longer term storage I highly suggest storing the gun in a ziplock bag along with a freshly baked silica gel pack to aid in drying the air in the bag. By keeping the gun bagged for the longer term you should avoid any gumming and varnish like drying out of the oil. Also since UV light has some effect on the oil keep the bagged gun in a cool dark place.

In the meantime perhaps mail order for some Ballistol to use for long term storage. And "long term" in this case means more than 2 to 3 months.

As for the actual cleaning I found I get away with only cleaning the action out every three to four days of use. And since I use my guns in my cowboy action shooting that means roughly every 100 shots from each gun. So far this has worked out fine with zero damage to the internal bits.

Besides if you're shooting a Colt style open top then by the time you remove the frames to let you set the wood grips to one side you may as well take out the last couple of screws and gut the whole works out onto the table.

A Remington is easy to clean the barrel only. Just get a 3 Qt ice cream bucket or similar and fill it with hot soapy water up to the point that the barrel sits with the forcing cone barely submerged. I don't even remove the grips for cleaning in this manner.
 
Easy just dont clean them

I know I know thats almost a stoning offense in the BP forum
but seriously I shoot mine I reload with plenty of grease and its still good to go next time i want it.

Im lucky or my shooters are lucky if they get a cleaning every 300 shots or 6 months.

I think a lot of people here spend a awfull lot of time on safe queens

I just like to shoot em big bang lots of smoke who cares if I ruin my 200 dollar
pietta replica BTW im finding that is hard to do many years thousands of shots and all i can say is the bluing is wearing of the barrell,cyl pin and loading lever no rust at all even inside the handle assembly is rust free.

:neener:

its just like careing for cast iron cookware
You must shoot the real stuff?
 
I know most everyone has their own way of cleaning their C&B revolvers, so will just throw mine into the mix for Remington 58s at home, which only takes a few minutes start to finish.

Remove cylinder and grips, immerse in container of hot soapy water, with bore mop and tooth brush scrub it clean, flush repeatedly with clean hot water. Blow dry with 150 psi air, spray liberally with alcohol then blow dry, immerse in container of Mystery Oil, remove and wipe down, use HP air blow down to remove much oil as possible, dry rag wipe down, then lube as normal.

Has always worked fine for me, other’s mileage may vary.
 
It was the 150 psi air hose that I lacked in 1968. That's probably why I went the route I went. Still don't have a compressor, only use canned air which really does not blow all the water out.
 
I'm thinking that Driftwood and I aren't too far apart. We are both using water to do the cleaning, and agree that it doesn't have to be boiling hot. Driftwood uses his Murphy's Oil mix to prevent rust, then follows up with a chaser of Ballistol.

I just use Ballistol after cleaning with water.

In both cases the water that would be left on the metal to cause rust is mixed with some sort of oil. Eventually the oil is left behind after the water in the oil/water solution evaporates.

The big thing that a new BP shooter needs to get between their ears is that BP fouling does not require any "modern" solvents, but that the fouling does need to be cleaned as it is hygroscopic and will absorb water from the natural humidity in the air. Someone who lives in Phoenix may experience less of a problem than would someone in, say, Alabama. But the good news is that water alone - even cold water - will do the job. Then it's just a matter or removing the water.

I just stripped down one of my 1860 Colt clones yesterday after cleaning it with water only the last time it was shot - maybe a year ago now - and there was absolutely no fouling or rust.
 
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