Clerk Attempts Self-Defense, Forgets Safety

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Horrible story.

Makes me glad none of my guns (less my Walther P22 which isn't a CCW weapon) have safeties.
 
On the flip side, there are also stories where the safety helped SAVE the good guy, when the BG took the gun away and couldn't work it. Some LEO's are like this since they get into tussles more often than the public.
 
On the flip side, there are also stories where the safety helped SAVE the good guy, when the BG took the gun away and couldn't work it. Some LEO's are like this since they get into tussles more often than the public.
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My department at one time issued Smith & Wesson 5906s. The department did not have a policy whether the pistol should be carried on or off safe.

Some deputies thought they were cute by carrying it on safe on patrol, but off safe at the range to have faster times out of the holster to getting first round on target. It was interesting when they forgot to take it off safe before stepping up to the firing line. The smarter ones realized the same thing could happen when they really needed their pistol on patrol.

Pilgrim
 
Quote from the Ayoob Files.

"The history of the semiautomatic pistol in the field shows us many, MANY cases of a criminal getting his hands on one, attempting to commit murder, and failing because he is unable to release the safety catch"

I think I'll side with Massad on this one! Pilgrim's story shows why you should train like you'd fight and fight like you train!
 
My first handguns have safetys. I am not sure I would buy another one that way. I think I would just buy a decock only model. After a recent injury to one arm, I decided to go with one of my revolvers for quick access. At the time of my injury and recovery, I realized that I could not operate a semi-auto very well. Should I need to clear a bad round, jam or stove pipe, I wouldn't have been capable of pulling the slide. It was OK being ready to go, but if there was any malfunction I would have been in big trouble. I also think that for my wife who does not shoot as often as I do, simpler is better. JMHO
 
One more reason I love my Glocks.

I'm just a regular guy. I go shooting, sure, but I don't eat sleep and breath this stuff. Who has time?

I rest easier knowing that I always have a round chambered and all I have to do to make it go bang is pull the trigger.

Simple.

Dare I say idiot proof.
 
Yes it is.
While no one is saying he shouldn't have made himself more proficient with a defense weapon, the fact is that there is less to forget with a revolver in a situation occurs in which there is duress -- which doesn't exist in a range. Ask G. Gordon Liddy -- this is his idea and he's been there, done that.
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If we are going to reference disembodied authority, Ayoob has noted that DA triggers often result is a higher percentage of missed first shots. So the clerck could have had a revolver, drawn, fired, missed, then been killed.

Disengaging the safety isn't rocket science. It should be like using the sights or knowing which way to point the gun before firing. I realize that some of you probably should be using handgrenades because they don't require aligning the sights and aligning the sights is just another thing you might forget to do.

Serious, do any of y'all forget to pull the trigger to make the gun go bang?

Taken a step further for cops, I think we have all seen the vids of cops attempting to draw guns from safety holsters and forgetting the snap. Maybe they should not have safety holsters?

Of course, maybe people should actually know, understand and be proficient with lethal force weapons and associated gear before depending on them to save their lives. Those of you who think using a safety is too much for you to handle under stress, then you should not have guns with safeties.

Y'all keep debating the issue of having to use a safety. Over at TFL, they are debating whether or not a gun should be carried with a round in the chamber. I don't know about y'all, but I think if you can't remember the safety, you sure as heck won't remember to chamber a round. I just love these extremes.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267213
 
Would'nt have happened if it was a revolver. Point and shoot, no safetys to worry about and almost no chance of any malfunctions.
 
This is one of the two reasons I never use a safety, and why I have no use for a 1911, and why I no longer carry my S&W 411. Anything I carry will be DA or striker fired.

Reason #2 is a safety is a poor excuse for safe gun handling.

Poor guy.
 
Gotta love my 1911 cocked and locked. Even if your a n00b and forget to remove the safety its a thumb flick away.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
Quote:
Yes it is.
While no one is saying he shouldn't have made himself more proficient with a defense weapon, the fact is that there is less to forget with a revolver in a situation occurs in which there is duress -- which doesn't exist in a range. Ask G. Gordon Liddy -- this is his idea and he's been there, done that.

If we are going to reference disembodied authority, Ayoob has noted that DA triggers often result is a higher percentage of missed first shots. So the clerck could have had a revolver, drawn, fired, missed, then been killed.

Disengaging the safety isn't rocket science. It should be like using the sights or knowing which way to point the gun before firing. I realize that some of you probably should be using handgrenades because they don't require aligning the sights and aligning the sights is just another thing you might forget to do.

Serious, do any of y'all forget to pull the trigger to make the gun go bang?
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You know, anything can "go wrong" with any type of gun especially if the user isn't familiar with it. G. Gordon was only saying that for people unfamiliar with guns the revolver was probably the best as it was the simplist in action. You don't need to worry about slides, "chambering" the first round (some women have problems with some semiautos) and safeties.
I am not trying to say that it's okay to buy any gun and stuff it in a drawer and say it's protection. I'm merely pointing out one observation by one individual who knows guns and who I respect.
Individual opinions may vary.
 
I don't know why we are even discussing Revolvers and Safeties here. The bottom line is the CLERK bought or Acquired a Semi-Auto. You would THINK he would have at least learned to use it. We shouldn't be blaming or talking about the gun. The bottom line is he is dead because he didn't become familiar with a weapon.

I see one too many times where someone thinks defense and they go buy a cheap ruger or Hi-point and then thats it. They don't think about fit, feel, reliability and even more so, don't think beyond the purchase like, firing it, practice, learning to break it down, what feeds best in it, etc. And then when the time comes to use it, having it is pointless.
 
And this is why I recommend DAO autos (NO EXTERNAL SAFETIES!) to people asking about first carry gun options. Very few will actually put in the time needed to remember to work a safety during an 'oh sh*t' life threatening moment of stress.
 
Another mistake?

I think in many cases, it is imprudent for someone with limited experience to draw on 2 bad guys who already have their weapons out. Would have to be there to know for sure, but I would imagine that sometimes, even though your are armed, it may be better to do nothing.
 
You know the guy in that first Youtube video above kind had a close one there with that kid on the counter and firing. That was a disaster waiting to happen. And the idiot mother as well.


Wouldn't have happened if the gun was a GLOCK.
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Please! If he was n00b enough to not learn how to quickly disengage safety he was probably n00b enough that with a glock or revolver he would have blown his penis off.
 
Revolver or DA pistol = problem solved. Even with plenty of training, stupid mistakes can happen.
 
Maybe y'all have a different definition of training than I do - I usually hold training to be instruction from and with a teacher present. Practice is acting on previous instruction/knowledge repeatedly and often... so I'd call this a problem with insufficient practice.

This problem has been encountered in the past. Ol' Fairbairn found it happening pre-WWII, and had all the safeties of all guns issued his department pinned, IIRC, after seeing officers killed because they had forgotten, in the heat of the moment, that their gun was safetied. I think the love of Glocks has something to do with the simpler manual of arms - no worries about a safety.
 
One of the reasons I still go for old fashioned wheel guns. They tend to be panic proof.
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My Glock is too. Thats why I keep one in the pipe... just point and squeeze. Safety switches are for target and hunting guns, not for self defense. The only safety I need is my holster.
 
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