Clerk shoots first
- Thread starter coylh
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The robber was....how can I put this....economical in his application of common sense to the situation.
Note to other robbers: if the clerk has already fired at you once, and is now taking cover behind the counter, be advised that if you try to vault the counter you may experience further incoming fire
Note to other robbers: if the clerk has already fired at you once, and is now taking cover behind the counter, be advised that if you try to vault the counter you may experience further incoming fire
sixgunner455
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Who is that idiot who kept commenting that she was wrong to have a gun and protect herself? What a tool.
Zen21Tao
Member
Ending words of the video: "In this case, the video serves as a vital eye witness when a grand Jury ruled the clerk killed the supsect in self-defense."
The saddest part of this incident was that it ever made it to a grand jury in the first place, especially with the state/district attorney having this video.
The saddest part of this incident was that it ever made it to a grand jury in the first place, especially with the state/district attorney having this video.
Dr. Dickie
Member
And here we go again with the talking head saying, having a gun only escalates the violence.
Yeah, but it escalates it in the direction of the bad guy. I suppose he would sleep safer at night if the woman had simply lay on the floor and waited for the bullet to the back of the head.
Yeah, but it escalates it in the direction of the bad guy. I suppose he would sleep safer at night if the woman had simply lay on the floor and waited for the bullet to the back of the head.
TCUGLOCKER
Member
People in leather chairs do alot of talking...I personally enjoy having a gun while sitting in my leather chair. However, I venture to say anyone would want a gun manning a liquor store by their lonesome. I'm assuming that the talking head is a lawyer (which means he runs to criminals and not away from), sorry generic lawyer joke no need to correct me or have any hurt feelings about how important lawyers are.
p.s. did anyone see the liquor store "robbery," on CourtTV in Fort Worth where the guy "snuck" in through the back and came in through ceiling and proceeded to fall on top of a liquor shelf and get himself locked in? I suppose we have the most clever criminals here in North Texas.
p.s. did anyone see the liquor store "robbery," on CourtTV in Fort Worth where the guy "snuck" in through the back and came in through ceiling and proceeded to fall on top of a liquor shelf and get himself locked in? I suppose we have the most clever criminals here in North Texas.
The Unknown User
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I'm not sure where pro-gun people get off saying that having a firearm does not escalate violence. Of course it does. Inherently, having a weapon present increases the possibility of it being used. If it isn't there, it can't be used, and this, no violence.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, people.
It's the same as how you carry a concealed pistol. Eventually, you might be in a situation where you have every legal right to use it. Ta-dah! Violence occurs. If you didn't carry, it wouldn't.
Violence is violence even if it's self-defense.
It's not a difficult concept to grasp, people.
It's the same as how you carry a concealed pistol. Eventually, you might be in a situation where you have every legal right to use it. Ta-dah! Violence occurs. If you didn't carry, it wouldn't.
Violence is violence even if it's self-defense.
WeThePeople
Member
Rob87:
Buddy, you've got it completely wrong. The violence was already there when the criminal decided to use a gun in the commission of the crime. The criminal had already escalated the violence and the clerk deescalated the violence by shooting him.
Buddy, you've got it completely wrong. The violence was already there when the criminal decided to use a gun in the commission of the crime. The criminal had already escalated the violence and the clerk deescalated the violence by shooting him.
30 cal slob
Member
guys, please post text, as the site is blocked on my network.
Jack***
I am so sick of jerks like the one whining about "escalating" the violence. This attitude seems to have infected every police chief across the country. The cops who actually step outside the office think it's great when a good guy shoots a bad guy, but the political pantywaists at the top love to go on about how it could have been worse.
"Oh, you may have just pissed him off by pulling a gun. It just increases the chances of violence. A brisk wind might make your bullet turn around and come back at you. After all, you're just an ordinary citizen."
Blah blah blah! Blow it out your hind end. Go spout off your nonsense to your manicurist, Wai-Ling who's blessed enough to not be able to understand the crap coming out of you mouth. Tell her that she and her 110 pound daughters should just do everything the nice robber tells them to and then offer to do his nails afterwards. Just don't provoke the poor misunderstood soul.
I am so sick of jerks like the one whining about "escalating" the violence. This attitude seems to have infected every police chief across the country. The cops who actually step outside the office think it's great when a good guy shoots a bad guy, but the political pantywaists at the top love to go on about how it could have been worse.
"Oh, you may have just pissed him off by pulling a gun. It just increases the chances of violence. A brisk wind might make your bullet turn around and come back at you. After all, you're just an ordinary citizen."
Blah blah blah! Blow it out your hind end. Go spout off your nonsense to your manicurist, Wai-Ling who's blessed enough to not be able to understand the crap coming out of you mouth. Tell her that she and her 110 pound daughters should just do everything the nice robber tells them to and then offer to do his nails afterwards. Just don't provoke the poor misunderstood soul.
The Unknown User
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There isn't much text. Basically, it's a video of a clerk being held at gunpoint. The clerk pulls her own gun, fires once, and then the robber tries to hop the counter. So she shoots him four times, and he dies.
Then some moron criticizes her using force to defend herself.
I should point out I'm all for her defending herself, but I'm getting a little sick and tired of the "guns don't create more violence" routine. Inherently, the presence of a weapon creates more violence.
You can't get shot with a gun that isn't there. However, I think I need to let go of the semantics. It's all politics. Pro-gun people will never admit that having a weapon increases the chances of it being used, same as how anti-gun people will never admit owning a weapon has its benefits.
Then some moron criticizes her using force to defend herself.
I should point out I'm all for her defending herself, but I'm getting a little sick and tired of the "guns don't create more violence" routine. Inherently, the presence of a weapon creates more violence.
You can't get shot with a gun that isn't there. However, I think I need to let go of the semantics. It's all politics. Pro-gun people will never admit that having a weapon increases the chances of it being used, same as how anti-gun people will never admit owning a weapon has its benefits.
If a gun is pulled in self-defense violence already existed. And it was probably unjustified violence that caused it to be pulled. But yes, violence is being used to respond to violence and that is perfectly acceptable. It's a pointless semantic argument.
When the anti-gunners say that having a gun for self-defense "escalates violence" they are really trying to put the full weight of the incident on the clerk, or the homeowner, etc. And they are also implying that for any given incident, the most important factor is total violence. If a robber pulls a gun on a clerk there is less violence than if the clerk points a gun back. We're supposed to believe that even though an innocent is killed, it's better than having the total level of violence escalated.
I'm not sure who could actually believe that nonsense but they are definitely out there. I think gun owners(legal) are mostly of the mind that there are two levels of violence. It's there or it ain't. We don't measure an incident by how much violence was employed, we measure it by how many good guys and how many bad guys are buried when it's over.
When the anti-gunners say that having a gun for self-defense "escalates violence" they are really trying to put the full weight of the incident on the clerk, or the homeowner, etc. And they are also implying that for any given incident, the most important factor is total violence. If a robber pulls a gun on a clerk there is less violence than if the clerk points a gun back. We're supposed to believe that even though an innocent is killed, it's better than having the total level of violence escalated.
I'm not sure who could actually believe that nonsense but they are definitely out there. I think gun owners(legal) are mostly of the mind that there are two levels of violence. It's there or it ain't. We don't measure an incident by how much violence was employed, we measure it by how many good guys and how many bad guys are buried when it's over.
Dr. Dickie
Member
I'm sorry, but I do not see where anyone said it did not increase the violence. The point is, who CARES if it increases the violence, as long as the increase is in the direction of the BAD GUY. Sure, a simple shot to the back of the head of the clerk is less violence than the clerk shooting at the bad guy and the bad guy shooting back. And yes, it is possible that no shots would have been fired if she had not defended herself, but would you want to bet your life on it?
And it doesn't ONLY increase the violence, it may also increase the probability that you live.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Personally, I don't see a fault with whether the violence escalates or de-escalates. That is just semantic garbage. The bottom line is that the clerk was faced with a lethal threat and she neutralized it.
The idiot on the video is right. Things could have gone the other way, but not because of what the clerk did. Things could have gone the other way had the robber been more pro-active. He came in threatening and failed to follow through and the clerk seized the opportunity to defend herself in a pro-active manner.
From a legal standpoint, the threat of lethal force can be met with the application of lethal force in that the robber had the opportunity (present at the scene and interacting directly with the clerk), means (armed with a gun) and intent (pointed at the clerk) and so the clerk responded within the confines of the law.
The robber was there for the money, apparently, but the clerk did not protect the money or the store, but herself as the robber was using a threat against her life so as to leverage the money from her.
The threat was neutralized and the the situation de-escalated.
The idiot on the video is right. Things could have gone the other way, but not because of what the clerk did. Things could have gone the other way had the robber been more pro-active. He came in threatening and failed to follow through and the clerk seized the opportunity to defend herself in a pro-active manner.
From a legal standpoint, the threat of lethal force can be met with the application of lethal force in that the robber had the opportunity (present at the scene and interacting directly with the clerk), means (armed with a gun) and intent (pointed at the clerk) and so the clerk responded within the confines of the law.
The robber was there for the money, apparently, but the clerk did not protect the money or the store, but herself as the robber was using a threat against her life so as to leverage the money from her.
The threat was neutralized and the the situation de-escalated.
robert garner
Member
She only "wanted to go home tonight"
Milicious prosecution?
robert
Milicious prosecution?
robert
romma
Member
The quote from that Moron... At least she had a choice. Otherwise, it would have gone only the way the criminal wanted...
WeThePeople
Member
I forgot to mention my concern that a prosecutor actually took that case to a grand jury. The prosecutor has broad discretion to do so. In a case where he/she decides to do so where self-defense is so clear cut and memorialized on a video, I have to question the serious anti-defense/pro-criminal motivation in that office. I would make that well-known to all of my friends and contacts during the next election.
HowardC
Member
A good example of real-life handgun power....
It would be interesting to know what she was using. Either she poorly placed the first shot, or it was a small caliber ctg. Good video indicating why you need as big as gun as you can shoot, and practice to put 'em where you need 'em. You may not be able to aim like you do at the range !!
I readily admit, she did all she could as far as cover, etc., and the pucker factor must have been off the scale. I hope I have as much cool as she if I ever experience the situation.
-HowardC
It would be interesting to know what she was using. Either she poorly placed the first shot, or it was a small caliber ctg. Good video indicating why you need as big as gun as you can shoot, and practice to put 'em where you need 'em. You may not be able to aim like you do at the range !!
I readily admit, she did all she could as far as cover, etc., and the pucker factor must have been off the scale. I hope I have as much cool as she if I ever experience the situation.
-HowardC
The Unknown User
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You guys are right. I need to knock it off with the semantic crap. My apologies.
I'm glad the clerk made it out of the situation okay. I wonder what her therapy bills are like. O.O
My apologies.I'm glad the clerk made it out of the situation okay. I wonder what her therapy bills are like. O.O
Sage of Seattle
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"Somehow this clerk has survived...and killed her assailant in the process."
Yeah, somehow she survived. I think it was very possibly the Magic Bullet Fairy who materialized and teleported some bullets into the robber.
So essentially, these CourtTV wankers are saying, "Even though this brave clerk survived a brutal attack, it's never recommended that you defend yourself against violence because you could be killed, or worse yet, killed even more!"
Yeah, somehow she survived. I think it was very possibly the Magic Bullet Fairy who materialized and teleported some bullets into the robber.
So essentially, these CourtTV wankers are saying, "Even though this brave clerk survived a brutal attack, it's never recommended that you defend yourself against violence because you could be killed, or worse yet, killed even more!"
PAshooter
Member
Good one, Sage.
Good reason not to have a gun to protect yourself. If an armed assailant attacks you, and you're unarmed, you could get killed. If an armed assailant attacks you, and you're armed, it will "escalate the violence" and... you could get killed... ummm... more killed?
Or you might just defend yourself and survive.
Nah...
Good reason not to have a gun to protect yourself. If an armed assailant attacks you, and you're unarmed, you could get killed. If an armed assailant attacks you, and you're armed, it will "escalate the violence" and... you could get killed... ummm... more killed?
Or you might just defend yourself and survive.
Nah...
ZeSpectre
Member
Upon hearing that, the following immortal words just LEPT into my mind.
Tom Servo
Member
Looks like the fourth shot did the trick. Good for her. Once the assailant is down, she covers him with the gun to make sure he's not getting up, then she retreats. Good form. Notice that she didn't move in a straight line while withdrawing.
Of course, in the liberal's world, she should have said, "make my day," while reloading a 50-round drum and emptying it into the guy. How come that didn't happen?
"Somehow this clerk has survived." That's the point.
Of course, in the liberal's world, she should have said, "make my day," while reloading a 50-round drum and emptying it into the guy. How come that didn't happen?
"Somehow this clerk has survived." That's the point.
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