Close Range Bear Defense

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EastonTexas

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Thoughts on a mossberg shock wave or similar 14 inch barrel shotgun with pistol brace for close range bear defense in conjunction with a regular pistol?
 
Kit here is Mossberg 590 Mariner 9 shot 3", S&W 629PC 2.5" 44Mag - but first line of defense is the bear spray. That's for stomping around in brown bear infested locations. If black bear are the only 4 legged furries to worry about, I'd leave the 590 at home...
 
I wonder how long it takes for a bear to recover from a snout full of pepper. I got charged by a black bear once, I was lucky that he stopped at the tree line and my porch/front door was 15ft from the tree line.... I was walking around my house and I could hear them hooting off in the distance and I was just kind of standing g at the edge of the trees where it gets very thick and I heard a lil bit of rustling around, then I smelled him, then I cocked my head over to my porch only to realize my porch was one trash barrel shy, and then the hairs stood up on my neck and I crouched down to get a better look through the trees and I heard a loud snort and then the sound of vegetation breaking, he was barreling through those saplings like a raped ape, I've never seen something so big move through thick brush like that but I moved with purpose and a will to live. I had a gun but it was so agile and fast that I think if it wanted me it could have got me.

Kind of like trying to get your seatbelt on before you wreck, it all just happened fast and I'm glad I didn't try to pull on this bear and instead made it to my door in 3 big bounds.... Bears are no joke, even big old black bears that you see lumbering through the woods and they look fat and slow, I assure you, they can take off like a bat out of hell. They are impressive animals. I think a 12ga is probably a safe bet, I think 10mm is probably better than nothing but I would opt for the 12ga because they can close distance very quickly and if your first few shots don't hit the light switch you could be in serious trouble....
 
I,ve repelled two black bears over many years of hiking in PA state forests. Bear spray works wonders. Wen I hike mow I carry bear spray and my 9mm loaded with Underwood =P+ Extreme Penetrator.
 
When we used to rent a cabin in Wisconsin once a year, I'd carry my 357 when we were outside. Not ideal, but doable for black bear. Would much rather have had a 10mm or 44, but you use what you have. I never actually saw a bear, but one did leave a nice pile of "evidence" in the sidewalk one year which is what prompted me to start carrying something with a little more punch than my 9mm.
 
A second on the Bear Spray, I can only speak to Black Bears, but banging pot's, yelling, even an in the air shot with a 12 Gauge and one big Male ignored me and was tearing up our LP grill our only means of cooking. I hit him with a two second hit of Bear spray and he was gone, never to return. (I was backed up by my Son who had an M-1 Garand.) IMG_0908.JPG Smokey 3.jpg
 
EastonTexas said:
Grizzly or black bear
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Ah, what's the velocity of 00 buck or a slug out of a short barrel like that? It seems that for the weight and bulk of such a gun, there are probably better options. Would it work? Maybe, maybe not. Lots of factors to consider. For black bears, I'd say it's a reasonable option. Grizzly are different.
 
WrongHanded said:
Ah, what's the velocity of 00 buck or a slug out of a short barrel like that? It seems that for the weight and bulk of such a gun, there are probably better options. Would it work? Maybe, maybe not. Lots of factors to consider. For black bears, I'd say it's a reasonable option. Grizzly are different.
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It's amazing how lil I can find on the velocity of 9-pellet 00 buck out of the shockwave-Tac14. I would think that information would be plastered all over for as popular as those guns are but at least my uneducated, non-expert opinion, you'd be better off with #4 buck or 00Buck, than just about anything else. I i.agine you'd still be getting 1000fps+ out of those and I can't think of a living breathing being on earth that would take a close range dose of that...... but, I hope so.ebody more knowledgeable chimes in because it's a good question.......
 
The gun you have with you seems to work 97% of the time.

Update: Handgun or Pistol Against Bear Attack: 93 cases, 97% Effective (ammoland.com)


Choosing the correct ammo is probably more important than the gun. There have been cases where even the largest brown bear were killed with 9mm. The Phil Shoemaker incident a few years ago is the most notable. The heavy for caliber hard cast loads made by Double Tap and Buffalo Bore have proven to give very deep penetration from even common handguns. The 147 gr 9mm load went over 60". They only had 60" of gelatin and didn't catch the bullets.

For years I've carried my Glock 10mm loaded with 200 gr hardcast from Double Tap at 1300 fps. And regardless of the success of 9mm on big bear that is still my choice if I were in grizzly country. I might trust 9mm or 45 on black bear. The 255 gr 45 ACP loads at about 900 fps look good too.

Common shotgun slugs are not a good choice. The brenneke sabot slugs are a much better choice, but only from a rifled slug barrel. Buckshot is a poor choice, not nearly enough penetration. I'd leave the shockwave home and carry a handgun.
 
DustyGmt said:
It's amazing how lil I can find on the velocity of 9-pellet 00 buck out of the shockwave-Tac14. I would think that information would be plastered all over for as popular as those guns are but at least my uneducated, non-expert opinion, you'd be better off with #4 buck or 00Buck, than just about anything else. I i.agine you'd still be getting 1000fps+ out of those and I can't think of a living breathing being on earth that would take a close range dose of that...... but, I hope so.ebody more knowledgeable chimes in because it's a good question.......
Click to expand...

I didn't look for velocities, but I'm not sure whether to be surprised or not that data is hard to find. One more thing to consider (and this is interesting stuff to me) is the weight of 00 buckshot. It seems the weight is fairly low, according to this most excellent resource I found:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/00-buck-how-much-does-the-shot-weigh.519937/

Which makes me wonder what kind of penetration buckshot will actually make through bear fur and hide. A hit to the face with such a load may well be all it takes to turn a Grizzly (if not just kill it with a CNS hit). I just wonder how the velocity would affect performance of relatively small and lightweight lead balls. Because I get the feeling that 00 buck at slower speeds, probably won't do enough damage for a fast stop if it misses the CNS.

On the other hand, it might work very well. I confess, I've never had to shoot a charging bear, so I just don't know.
 
Blue Jays said:
We never have any bear defense THR threads. Glad this was posted.
If in the lower 48 states for black bear the 10mm pistol is sufficient.
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The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid.

https://bear.org/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/#:~:text=The 750,000 black bears of,an easy situation to avoid.


I've had multiple run ins with Black Bears. Most of them ignored me, the rest of them took off.

I think I should clarify that I didn't deliberately approach the bears. They were all random encounters while hiking and I backed away(or the bear did) as soon as I was aware of the bear's presence.

FWIW you can usually smell them.
 
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DustyGmt said:
then I smelled him
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Yep. Once your nose is attuned to that smell it's a pretty reliable indicator.

I live in the rural northeast. 25 years ago if you even saw a black bear it was probably running away. Sadly that is not the case any more. I have encountered several bears who were not afraid of me. They also can get pretty damn big up here, just like whitetails. Bigger than in Georgia, I'd wager.
 
Alaska has a bear class and to pass you have to put so many shots in the mouth of the bear target that charges you. Are you really gonna do that with a Shockwave?
 
A 12 gauge shotgun with slugs is great for bear.

Personally I like Shockwaves quite a lot, but it's neither shotgun nor pistol, it's pretty much its own different animal.

Personally I prefer a Blackhawk loaded heavy in 45 colt for bear but I'd be fine with a Shockwave with slugs as well
 
A 9 shot Mossberg 590 loaded with slugs and a Glock 29SF come with me on my trips out west in the summer-----never had an issue yet but it's nice to have backup "insurance"
 
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