Daniel T
Member
I'm not convinved that the SU-16 would fail the "throw" test anyway. Poly can take a pounding.
Does anyone have any hard data to show that it fails a drop test?
Does anyone have any hard data to show that it fails a drop test?
Closest Competition to Kel-Tec SU-16?
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Roland of Gilead
member
Double tap. All apologies. 
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Roland of Gilead
member
guess it boils down to what you want. Do you want an inaccurate, durable rifle you can give to your grandchildren (so they, too, can miss what they're aiming at),
You have no location on your profile. Do you happen to be in the South, where I can embarrass you with my "inaccurate" Mini? I hope so. Maybe you missed the part about me killing coyotes at 300 yards plus? Anyone ever killed a coyote (or anything else) with a SU, or you guys all bought closet queens? No .223 that makes hits at 300 yards is inaccurate. Talk about hyperbole!
And for the 100th time, the best mags for Mini-14's are PMI mags, not Ramline. Do a search. Some even speculate that PMI mags ARE factory mags. People have reported feed problems with most every other brand.
Metal mags suck IMHO. I don't know how PMIs are better than Ramlines, Ramlines have fed over 500 rds thru my Mini with 100% reliability. Hard to beat a perfect record.
Why can't we compare new to new? I'd guess because the Kel Tec is cheaper new.
We can , both guns MSRP is over $600. I think Kel-Tec is $675ish, Minis are about $650. That CDNN couldn't find a sucker to give more than $400 speaks volumes to me about SUs, and the suckers who buy them. Why can't we compare used to used? I guess because there are no used SUs! Maybe that is because they haven't been on the market for more than a year, which makes them unproven as hell when you compare them to my 25 year old, 3MOA Mini.
And how can the Alpha model epitomize cheap build, but not the Bravo? Aside from the barrels and sights (which can be retrofitted), they're the same. The SU-16 comes with a rail (no need for the B-Square), but the Ranch comes with rings. Wash.
The front sight on my Sub2000 was the first thing to break. I broke it by trying to loosed the set screw that held the plastic front sight blade in place. So, the sight was precisely what I was talking about. My Mini isn't a Ranch Rifle so I have a better rear sight, and the option of irons and a red dot sight or scope. When I get my scout mount I'll have irons, red dot, and scope all at the same time. I am not a big fan of ruger rings, they don't let you use irons, and sighting redundancy is important to me. For one thing I like to change sights frequently and zeroing is a lot easier when you already have one set of sights that are correct.
Even though the ban is over, you can’t get cheap decent standard capacity magazines for your mini, though you can for the su16. I would love to get a su16 for a easily transportable rifle.
Damn, news to me, I got two 30 rd Ramlines for $20 a pop since the sunset. If you can't afford a $20 mag, how you gonna afford cartridges?
The mini looks nicer to me when its in a decent synthetic stock or wood, but the aftermarket folding stocks make it feel like a broken cheap toy.
yeah, choate and ramline are known for making cheap junk
Ya'll go ahead and buy some SUs, maybe Mini's prices will drop and I'll get two or three more. Changing AR uppers won't mean ???? to me if for the same $$ I can have a 1MOA Mini, and a 3MOA Mini folder.
You have no location on your profile. Do you happen to be in the South, where I can embarrass you with my "inaccurate" Mini? I hope so. Maybe you missed the part about me killing coyotes at 300 yards plus? Anyone ever killed a coyote (or anything else) with a SU, or you guys all bought closet queens? No .223 that makes hits at 300 yards is inaccurate. Talk about hyperbole!
And for the 100th time, the best mags for Mini-14's are PMI mags, not Ramline. Do a search. Some even speculate that PMI mags ARE factory mags. People have reported feed problems with most every other brand.
Metal mags suck IMHO. I don't know how PMIs are better than Ramlines, Ramlines have fed over 500 rds thru my Mini with 100% reliability. Hard to beat a perfect record.
Why can't we compare new to new? I'd guess because the Kel Tec is cheaper new.
We can , both guns MSRP is over $600. I think Kel-Tec is $675ish, Minis are about $650. That CDNN couldn't find a sucker to give more than $400 speaks volumes to me about SUs, and the suckers who buy them. Why can't we compare used to used? I guess because there are no used SUs! Maybe that is because they haven't been on the market for more than a year, which makes them unproven as hell when you compare them to my 25 year old, 3MOA Mini.
And how can the Alpha model epitomize cheap build, but not the Bravo? Aside from the barrels and sights (which can be retrofitted), they're the same. The SU-16 comes with a rail (no need for the B-Square), but the Ranch comes with rings. Wash.
The front sight on my Sub2000 was the first thing to break. I broke it by trying to loosed the set screw that held the plastic front sight blade in place. So, the sight was precisely what I was talking about. My Mini isn't a Ranch Rifle so I have a better rear sight, and the option of irons and a red dot sight or scope. When I get my scout mount I'll have irons, red dot, and scope all at the same time. I am not a big fan of ruger rings, they don't let you use irons, and sighting redundancy is important to me. For one thing I like to change sights frequently and zeroing is a lot easier when you already have one set of sights that are correct.
Even though the ban is over, you can’t get cheap decent standard capacity magazines for your mini, though you can for the su16. I would love to get a su16 for a easily transportable rifle.
Damn, news to me, I got two 30 rd Ramlines for $20 a pop since the sunset. If you can't afford a $20 mag, how you gonna afford cartridges?
The mini looks nicer to me when its in a decent synthetic stock or wood, but the aftermarket folding stocks make it feel like a broken cheap toy.
yeah, choate and ramline are known for making cheap junk
Ya'll go ahead and buy some SUs, maybe Mini's prices will drop and I'll get two or three more. Changing AR uppers won't mean ???? to me if for the same $$ I can have a 1MOA Mini, and a 3MOA Mini folder.
There are no used SU's on the market because everybody that buys one loves them. If the opposite were true, people would be trying to get rid of them. Don't hate because the SU is cheaper and more accurate, and a better gun IMO (based on action). And with the right ammo, people are getting 1" groups at 100yards on stock SU16's. A few are getting less than 1" groups, but most of them are using their own custom reloads. And from the forums I've seen people say they can hit the plates at 300yds with the SU.
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
My 1989-model mini-14 Ranch Rifle (188 series) will shoot 5.5" at 100 yards with good ammunition from a cold barrel, from a benchrest and sandbags. Get the barrel hot and groups open up to a foot or so.
Accurate enough for defensive purposes? Of course. Great for plinking, too. And perfectly reliable over the course of ~2000+ rounds. But very frustrating if you want a rifle that shoots nice, tight groups.
Magazines I've had good luck with are a Triple K 30-rounder, a Ram-Line 30-rounder, and a USA brand 20-rounder. I've also bought magazines that wouldn't even chamber a single round without binding the bolt. Unlike milsurp AR mags, which were made to strict military specifications (read: quality control), mini mags are hit or miss. I've never even SEEN a full-capacity PMI magazine at a gun show, but you can't walk through a gun show without tripping over AR mags everywhere. The mini's magazine attachment system is a bit slow to operate, not a big deal but the AR-type system is better.
I'm not meaning to knock the mini-14 here, but I have heard that newer mini-14's are not nearly as accurate as the older ones, and my 1989 would seem to bear that out.
Accurate enough for defensive purposes? Of course. Great for plinking, too. And perfectly reliable over the course of ~2000+ rounds. But very frustrating if you want a rifle that shoots nice, tight groups.
Magazines I've had good luck with are a Triple K 30-rounder, a Ram-Line 30-rounder, and a USA brand 20-rounder. I've also bought magazines that wouldn't even chamber a single round without binding the bolt. Unlike milsurp AR mags, which were made to strict military specifications (read: quality control), mini mags are hit or miss. I've never even SEEN a full-capacity PMI magazine at a gun show, but you can't walk through a gun show without tripping over AR mags everywhere. The mini's magazine attachment system is a bit slow to operate, not a big deal but the AR-type system is better.
I'm not meaning to knock the mini-14 here, but I have heard that newer mini-14's are not nearly as accurate as the older ones, and my 1989 would seem to bear that out.
Roland, how old are you? You talk like a 13 yr. old. I'm surprised you didn't post, "My Mini pwnz your SU-16!!"
I'm in California, BTW. I don't list it because I get tired of hearing the same ol' Kali-bashing over and over again. If you're ever near LA, PM me, and I'll show you how well I can shoot with my SU-16. I'll also show you my Mini, a more typical example of Mini-14's. Judging from the poor shooting from Mini-14 owners at my range, as well as the many complaints posted here and on www.perfectunion.com, the Mini-14 is not an accurate rifle (although it can be with another barrel). DO A SEARCH. I've done the cheapy accuracy mods recommended on PU, and my Mini still strings terribly after only several shots. The only accurate Mini-14 I've ever seen was one re-barreled by ASI. Guy shot sub 1" groups with it.
Funny, I also owned a Nissan 300ZX, 1984, IIRC (still said Datsun and Nissan). Two seater, T-top, 5-speed. Slow as heck, too many digital gizmos to really lay the rubber. Nice ride, though.
KaceCoyote
Member
They dont like Minis, deal with it. Minis from the box shoot like crap, deal with it. He does not want a rifle that shoots like crap from the box, deal with it. The SU-16 shoots decently from the box, deal with it. The SU-16 is a tough rifle, deal with it. Its not as tough as a Mini, but the Mini is pretty darn tough.
Am I a mini hater? No but that doesnt stop them from sucking in the worst possible way when it comes to raw accuracy. I'm sure that a Mini with 400 dollars not counting optics and handloads groups pretty darn well. I'm also pretty darn sure an Su-16 with 400 bucks dropped in it could group pretty darn well. Accuracy with mods, is no more impressive than speed with mods. Especially when we're talking out've the box. You can turbocharge a Yugo, but at the end of the day nomatter what you've done wot it, its still a Yugo.
Re-lax-dude. They disagree with you, getting into an arguement over this wont win you a single fan.
Am I a mini hater? No but that doesnt stop them from sucking in the worst possible way when it comes to raw accuracy. I'm sure that a Mini with 400 dollars not counting optics and handloads groups pretty darn well. I'm also pretty darn sure an Su-16 with 400 bucks dropped in it could group pretty darn well. Accuracy with mods, is no more impressive than speed with mods. Especially when we're talking out've the box. You can turbocharge a Yugo, but at the end of the day nomatter what you've done wot it, its still a Yugo.
Re-lax-dude. They disagree with you, getting into an arguement over this wont win you a single fan.
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Keep praying.
What a joke this guy is.
Get any PM's from the Mods yet? Here's a couple of clues for you, free of charge: 1) Those ?????'s mean you have to learn a few new words. Hard, I know, but I'm sure you can do it.
2) You keep attacking people like you do, you won't be around here for very long. What ever happened to Southern manners? Roland of Gilead
member
Here's few clues for you, free of charge, consider it a return of the favor.
1. No PMs. I guess you aren't as important as you thought.
2.Those ??? mean I don't change my behavior or vocabulary for anyone, even if they can't stand to have their virgin ears so maligned.
3. If I get kicked off, I get kicked off, there are plenty of other forums. Luckily for me, its apparently not up to you.
4. Its Southern Hospitality we are so famous for. Come around sometime, I'll be happy to show you some.
5. When someone actually shoots something besides a dangerous piece of paper with a SU, let me know, I'm sure it'll make headlines. I guess ya'll slicks don't get to shoot at much else, and so closet queens serve you as well as anything. Too bad (for you) that you think a good hole puncher = a good SHTF gun. Hope you never need it to pull double duty. Actually I hope you do, and find it lacking.
1. No PMs. I guess you aren't as important as you thought.
2.Those ??? mean I don't change my behavior or vocabulary for anyone, even if they can't stand to have their virgin ears so maligned.
3. If I get kicked off, I get kicked off, there are plenty of other forums. Luckily for me, its apparently not up to you.
4. Its Southern Hospitality we are so famous for. Come around sometime, I'll be happy to show you some.
5. When someone actually shoots something besides a dangerous piece of paper with a SU, let me know, I'm sure it'll make headlines.
I guess ya'll slicks don't get to shoot at much else, and so closet queens serve you as well as anything. Too bad (for you) that you think a good hole puncher = a good SHTF gun. Hope you never need it to pull double duty. Actually I hope you do, and find it lacking.mfree
Member
No sir, I don't like it.
I do believe I won't be buying a Mini14 from Roland or an SU from Justang anytime soon High road, y'all?
I do believe I won't be buying a Mini14 from Roland or an SU from Justang anytime soon
High road, y'all?Domino
Member
Roland dude, you need to chill out a bit 
don't be so forcefull, its just a forum were our fellow gun lovers can get useful information. BTW, as much as I love Ruger guns, their policies toward gun owners suck. Maybe you should defend a company that doesn't try to limit what kind of magazines they think is appropiate for you to have. Long live Kel-Tec!Duke of Lawnchair
Member
Wow, this thread is hilarious.
The answer to any question regarding firearms purchases is to "buy both!"
C'mon, don't say that.
There are plenty of "less-than-a-man" and "almost-a-man" that are fighting in any of the two theaters as we speak.
Age has nothing to do with being a "man".
-Jim
The answer to any question regarding firearms purchases is to "buy both!"
C'mon, don't say that.
There are plenty of "less-than-a-man" and "almost-a-man" that are fighting in any of the two theaters as we speak.
Age has nothing to do with being a "man".
-Jim
KaceCoyote
Member
see, thats the arguement I tried on mom when I was 13 and wanted an MP5.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Actually, I think that it passed from hilareous to pathetic about 8-10 posts ago. But like a car wreck, I seem to keep coming back to see how much worse it could possibly get.
Roland, I've got a couple of tips for you. First, if you're 26 years old, you're also old enough to know better than to take the low road on The High Road. Getting nasty when the going got tough simply makes people NOT want to put much stock in your opinions on things. That's just human nature, and you're gonna have to learn to deal with it.
Secondly, there is no such thing as The Perfect Firearm. I think that my SKS's kick fanny all over the Mini14/Mini30 *and* the SU16 in the 'throw-it-down, run-over-it, spit-on-it, and-will-it-still-work-afterwards' and the 'does-it-shoot-real-ammo' comparisons, but that's just my opinion and its not worth anything more than what you paid for it. That doesn't mean that the Mini14 can't be better to you in your eyes based on your experiences and that doesn't mean that the SU16 can't be better for BamBam or Justang based on their experiences. One of the most important skills to learn in life is to be receptive to learning from others as opposed to trying to fit everything that comes your way into the pigeonholes of your past experiences. I guarantee that the sum total of all of our collective experiences with these weapons still doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the real world (and I've humped a M16 around for a few years, courtesy of Uncle Sam).
To the people who live-or-die in part based on their choice of weaponry, all of these rifles are toys and not worth considering as serious hardware. Let's keep ALL of this in perspective before getting to wrapped around the axle.....
Yeah, when is thread gonna die?
I've said from the start, these are my opinions. It's my opinion that the SU action is better, and the accuracy is much better than the Mini, and I like the styling... ect.
Like Duke said... buy both. Then you can make up your own mind.
I'm actually looking at the SKS's now. Learning about them and whatnot. All the shops around here are thieves though... then want $500+ for SKS's that aren't in the greatest condition. Maybe a Garand will be my next purchase instead of the SKS.
I've said from the start, these are my opinions. It's my opinion that the SU action is better, and the accuracy is much better than the Mini, and I like the styling... ect.
Like Duke said... buy both. Then you can make up your own mind.
I'm actually looking at the SKS's now. Learning about them and whatnot. All the shops around here are thieves though... then want $500+ for SKS's that aren't in the greatest condition. Maybe a Garand will be my next purchase instead of the SKS.
Sorry, Duke, forgot my [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]. You're 100% correct, of course. Among other things, it's how you conduct yourself, especially when things don't go your way.
Justang, Turner's has Yugo SKS's for $250. I just saw one in Pasadena yesterday. Like rbernie says, they're great rifles. Just don't let that stop you from buying a Garand!
Duke of Lawnchair
Member
I should've known you were being sarcastic.
The internet pWnZ j00!
BTW, I agree with the quoted statement 100%.
-Jim
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