Closure of public lands in az

[captain awesome]

How is this related to guns? well, along with all the other crap they are shoving down our throats, closing off many of the roads available and restricting camping(from a vehicle) to a very limited percentage of the Coconino national forest, well, that makes it very difficult to target shoot when the fire restrictions are lifted. Dang near impossible for a responsible person.

Here is a link for the newly enacted travel management rule and info on the project;

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/landmanagement/projects/?cid=stelprdb5263010

Outdoors-men like myself are very upset about it. I won't post links to other blogs and forums I have found, but suffice it to say that I have yet to find any public support of it.


I have written an email/ letter that will be sent to any and all emails and address's I can find in the national forest service, game and fish dept., bureau of land management ect..I can find. I urge anyone who cares at all about being able to utilize our forests in the future to do the same. Flood them with angry mail and perhaps we can make a difference. I am so tired of our rights and freedoms being trodden on in this country. Bit by bit they are trying to put us farther under their thumb, and our freedoms will continue to be frittered away unless we do something as a people. Here is my letter;

To whom it may concern,
Before I delve into this email, let me state that I am an avid sports and outdoors-man, and conservationist. I have been using the Arizona Mogollon rim area my entire life. I respect the forest and all it has to offer and always have a policy of leaving no trace, and in fact have made a point of it to pick up any trash I find where ever I happen to be. I have always loved traveling up the small two track roads to get away from others, and enjoy the forest, camping in quiet solitude with my family.
This last weekend of July 6-8 2012, I was doing just that with my father and brother. A Forest Service Ranger came into our camp and informed us of all the new laws and policies about the road travel and camping restrictions. We were approximately 200 feet past where we are now "allowed" to camp, and were given a warning. This was my first time hearing about it, and I am disgusted. How dare you. There are many problems with what you have done. For starters, it is prejudice against anyone who is handicapped to restrict camping areas to everyone except backpackers. Second, not everyone likes so called "improved campgrounds" and it upsets me that my tax dollars are going to pay for them. I believe they make the forest ugly, smelly and is totally contradictory to your "preserve the forest" campaign. Third, by closing unmarked two track roads you are denying people of what is rightfully theirs. Yes, as a US citizen, and legal resident of Arizona those forests are MINE. They belong to the people, not the Forest Service, or the government or any agency thereof, and you have NO RIGHT to tell me or anyone else where I can and can't camp, park or drive. People have been using those roads for decades, and camping off of them, and it hasn't hurt the forest one bit. It is still a beautiful healthy habitat. Fourth, you have created a very real problem for hunters such as me. You have effectively closed most of the forest to hunting and here is why. When any one shoots big game, able bodied or not, there is only so far you can carry or drag a carcass. You need a vehicle to move it very far. If we are no longer allowed to drive more than a car length away from marked roads, you have made it so all we can do is road hunt. THAT IS NOT SPORTING. ANY limitation on this is unfair to sportsmen.
With what I have said in consideration I would like you to know that I am formally with drawing any and all future support, both politically and financially to conservationism, the forest service, and any other agency or politician that has anything to do with public land management. YOU WILL NOT SEE ANOTHER RED CENT FROM ME until these policies and laws are removed and the public is allowed to use our national forests freely. That is how it was originally intended when the federal government initially assigned the land to be national forest land. I would also like you to know, that I will be making it my personal goal from now on to inform as many people as possible about my boycott, and convincing any one and every one I can to join me in this quest. I strongly urge you and anyone else involved to reverse the damage you have caused as quickly as possible if you value the position you are in. Even the forest ranger who I came in contact with agreed that these new restrictions are unwarranted, and undesired by 95% of the people she talks to every day. I am sure any elected official or person with a government job understands the significance of the term 95%. In the words of my father, “what is the point of preserving the forest if no one can use it.”
Thank you for your time,
-Preston Miller

I know this kind of thing is nothing new, but them telling me where I can and can't drive to camp and shoot on land that is partially mine that I have been using my whole life was the final straw. Please get involved, or It will only get worse from here.

 

[hang fire]

Come the summer heat, we normally take the motor home up to the high country south of Williams to do a bit of shooting and ride the many trails there with our ATVs.

Week ago my neighbor asked where, so laid it out on his topo map. They were nailed by a young Forrest Service Officer and she threatened to ticket them if they even tried to get near there with their rigs.

So know the BLM will not be far behind with similar permanent closings here in AZ.

If I cannot go on public lands to enjoy, (*without doing damage) then I do not give a tinker's dam if it all burns down.

*: The wife and I on arrival at a campsite, always cleanup other’s trash if not large, heavy, &c. We also pick up pop/ beer cans &c thrown along the trails.

I am not an environmental fanatic, just believe in leaving the land cleaner than when we arrived

 

[mljdeckard]

Where is this area? I am familiar with the strip and Kiabab/North Rim.

I have actually heard of shooters being cited for poaching for simply being armed out in the sagebrush in AZ.

 

[Bobson]

Let me make sure I'm understanding this. Are public lands being permanently closed altogether, or are public lands being closed to vehicles?

 

[hso]

Or are they just being closed during this high risk fire season that has burned thousands of acres and hundreds of home?

 

[hang fire]

Permanently closed, has nothing to do with fires, and there will be no signs &c as to what roads and trails are actually closed..

Forest road closures due on May 1
CYNDY COLE Sun Staff Reporterazdailysun.com | Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:15 am

Read more: http://azdailysun.com/news/local/fo...800-5d38-affc-9268d74e332e.html#ixzz2099DNgDZ


Car campers and drivers headed to hiking and biking trails will have new rules restricting where they can drive and camp in Coconino National Forest starting May 1.

The forest is closing a little more than half its forest roads and banning cross-country motorcycle, vehicle and all-terrain vehicle use as part of a 2005 U.S. Forest Service directive to limit off-road driving in the nation's forests.

A little more than 3,000 miles of roads and some 20.5 miles of motorcycle-only trails will remain open.

It won't be obvious to motorcyclists and drivers, though, what roads are going to remain open or closed.

There won't be boulders blocking the way, or "closed" signs.

Instead, drivers will need to know where they are on a map (paper or electronic), and whether the road is open.

"Everything's going to be closed unless designated 'open' on the map," said Mike Dechter, National Environmental Policy Act coordinator for the Coconino National Forest.

MAPS HOLD KEY

The idea is that a "closed" sign could be cut down and tossed aside by someone intent on getting somewhere, whereas these plans might be more straightforward in enforcing.

Law enforcement officers plan to show people what's happening on maps and give warnings ahead of any fines or tickets, but the officers have the discretion to give tickets, too.

Read more: http://azdailysun.com/news/local/fo...800-5d38-affc-9268d74e332e.html#ixzz2099avGdg

 

[Bobson]

Well... I don't ride offroad for fun, but I'd be raging if I did (or if I used to, rather).

Look on the bright side. Hunting is going to get a whole lot easier. Most people will be too lazy to hike any real distance from the open roads. Now, you can just walk/horseback down the closed ones before veering off for a mile or three into the forest.

I predict increasing success among law-abiding, aggravated sportsmen.

 

[X-Rap]

The gov. has pretty much gone to the user beware regarding open trails and the method of travel. Western CO just had their new road plan instituted and it cut still more roads and trails from motorized use.
We have loved or public land to death and now it is increasingly limited to who can use it.

 

[oneounceload]

OP - while I understand your frustration as expounded upon in your email, after the first sentence, no one is going to be bothered to read the rest.

"You catch more flies with honey" comes to mind in how you might want to word the main body of it.

After that, you and your fellow AZ folks really need to contact a lawyer about suing them for just cause.

Good luck

 

[DaisyCutter]

I belong to a couple AZ off road clubs. It's been a long fight for responsible users. The fools doing broadies on ATVs and tossing back Budweisers ruin it for everyone, even the singletrack users you never see from the road.

 

[alsaqr]

The US Forest Service began closing roads and trails to off road vehicle use in the eastern US decades ago. i almost got a ticket while riding my Bultaco in the Monongahela NF in about 1980.

The federal government became concerned about off road vehicles in 1972. From Executive Order 11644:

Section 1. Purpose. It is the purpose of this order to establish policies and provide for procedures that will ensure that the use of off-road vehicles on public lands will be controlled and directed so as to protect the resources of those lands, to promote the safety of all users of those lands, and to minimize conflicts among the various uses of those lands.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11644.html


http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/landmanagement/projects/?cid=stelprdb5263010

The Coconino National Forest signed a Record of Decision on the Travel Management Project on September 28, 2011. This decision and the Final Environmental Impact Statement are available below. Implementation of these new rules went into effect on May 1, 2012.

 

[Zoogster]

Welcome to California.


I can remember when if you had a dirtbike you could go anywhere in California.
Then the 4 wheel ATV become popular and every person could partake in offroading. No balance, physical conditioning, or skill required, just hop on and give it gas.
This increased the number of people with limited outdoor experience that just wanted to 'tear it up' exponentially. There had already been a percentage of such people, but the overall numbers were low until the 4 wheeler came on the scene.
Eventually most public land was closed to offroading.
This meant the people that actually just wanted to use offroad vehicles for transportation no longer could because the vehicles were associated with digging ruts, doing donuts, and otherwise destroying the landscape for fun.
People getting as loud of exhausts as possible didn't help either.
They now have specific areas set aside for offroading. They are dusty wastelands with crowds of people that are certainly no outdoorsmen.
At such places it is about the machine, not the location the machine takes you. It is a large collection of exactly the people they didn't want in the forests destroying the landscape, all condensed into small areas to pose increased danger to one another in collisions and testosterone filled bouts of foolishness. It has made offroad vehicles relatively worthless in CA to the outdoorsman.

It would appear the same thing is happening in AZ now.

 

[hang fire]

The way it will be enforced is akin to driving down the highway, when with no warning signs as to speed limit change. One is pulled over and given a ticket, for not looking at a map for a different speed on that particular stretch of the road.

 

[blindhari]

Handiest thing in a 4 wheel driv in AZ is a full set of 60 year old Forest service topo maos dating back to the early 1960s. Over the years new maps seem to keep dropping items that used to be there. My brother in law and i have a mint set of late 1950s and 1960s in his safe. We carry full color reproductions of these. They are expensive to reproduce but invaluable if you really want to know what's there, especially closed county roads.

blindhari

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I am pretty sure that you can't have 60 year old maps dating to the 1960s, but I did go to public school.

You can save yourself a lot of money by simply photographing the maps with a digital camera and then they can be viewed on most smart phones just fine. I do topo maps that way from my properties.

 

[hso]

Folks, this is getting far to much about everything but shooting.

If we can't refocus it within our scope we're going to have to close this thread.

 

[bluetopper]

Has the government ever stated a reason they are closing off all this access to government lands and shooting therein?

 

[X-Rap]

IMO those who use the forest for what I call consumptive recreation meaning they take something with them when they leave be it game, firewood, or on a larger scale timber or minerals/nat. resources are getting the shaft more every year and those that only want to walk through and look are the ones being catered to.
It is fairly easy to traverse a body of land and carry what you need if the weather is fair and you aren't going to be picking up 300# along the way to carry back to the trail head so the hiker/camper who wishes to sight see or do a little fishing on a ten mile trip has now complaint over road closures. The man who used to drive out on the old logging/mine road for ten miles and set up a comfortable camp and then hunt a 2 or 4 mile radius is now SOL unless he has a pack string and a lot of tack.
I'm not defending those who would tear up the woods either but erosion has shaped our geography since the beginning of time and to me it matters little in the big scheme of things if the next Grand Canyon is started by an ATV or a wild game trail.

 

[average_shooter]

It is becoming increasingly more difficult to balance "multiple uses" of our public lands.

The cold hard truth of the matter is that a landscape that takes hundreds of years to stabilize, which is enjoyed by hundreds of tourists every year, can be very fragile and easily destroyed by one person on one ATV driving off of designated routes. Desert ecosystems tend to be especially fragile, and are especially hard-hit because there's "nothing there" to most people's perception. One's "right" to destroy a landscape for a moment of off-road travel does not override the rights of others wishing to enjoy that landscape as untouched.

Also, understand that the primary roles of the various federal and state conservation agencies differs. The BLM usually does a decent job of designating sites for use by off-road vehicles, if that's how you get your jollies, however you'll likely not see that from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

The Forest Service exists to provide the nation with continued timber growth for wood products, the BLM tends to focus on mineral and grazing rights in the western U.S., the Fish and Wildlife Service exists to provide habitat for all those fuzzy and feathered critters many of us like to hunt, and the National Park Service exists to provide tourist and educational opportunities for the public to enjoy. Similar tends to follow for the various state agencies, and each has a slightly different definition or focus of "conservation" and "preservation."

These agencies do not exist to provide you with property in which you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, but rather to ensure that there's something left of nature for future generations. In the vast majority of cases the land managers have a difficult time, but are trying to do the right thing to balance multiple uses of public lands fairly.

 

[langenc]

We have met the enemy and he is us.

We will soon drive across ND and MT. Those states are about 80% public land. Along hundreds of miles of interstate there will be a fence on both sides of the interstate. Try to use it!!

 

[X-Rap]

What these agencies were intended to do and what they actually do now are very much opposed or at least different. I only have the last 30 yrs or so to form my opinion but as an avid hunter and outdoors man as well as one who has worked in the extraction industry I have paid attention to the trends that impact my recreation and lively hood.
The USFS is increasingly morphing into the NPS and the BLM is morphing into the FS, the USFWS spends more money in western CO eradicating game fish than they do enhancing habitat for sportsman. Millions flow to state and fed agencies due to the ESA and their war on invasive species and at the same time the BLM has an unbelievable budget to preserve and protect an invasive species in the wild horse that is negatively impacting everything from Black Footed Ferrets, Desert Big Horn, Prong Horn, and Mule Deer habitat.
All these agencies now have armies of LE, and Fire as well as air, water, and ground fleets that are in constant competition for funding and justification and as I said I only have about 30 yrs in the west as a benchmark to the craziness, talk to a real old timer who has been out on the land for 50 or 60 yrs and you will be amazed at how things have transformed. It didn't get this way overnight.
Indeed we have met the enemy and he is us.


There is a movement afoot, disguised as offering more shooting opportunity by building ranges that IMO when it reaches fruition will virtually end shooting on public land that is not designated as a range. I know there are some trashy bums who leave a mess and dump crap on public land but that won't stop when they outlaw shooting, people will still have that dish washer/refrigerator that they need to get rid of and some will take the easy way.

 

[captain awesome]

you know, I can agree with keeping vehicles on trails, save for game retrieval and other special purposes. That is what the original federal regulation was all about. It's the rest of it that I am upset about. Especially closing down roads that the forest service paid logging companies to build in the first place years ago. Those are our tax dollars they are throwing away. My favorite secluded shooting spot up there according to them no longer exists.

 

[hso]

Who maintains those roads and keeps them from washing out and increasing erosion?

 

[bubbacrabb]

There is not much needed to maintain most of those two track roads in AZ. The roads I drove a few years back to my shooting spots probably hadn't been hit for years. Sure a bit rough, but anyone with a decent truck could get back there. With the new restrictions it makes it harder than ever to just get out and enjoy time out in the country. I live in Oregon now, this state is a nightmare. if you want to shoot here go to a gun range and be bored out of your mind. The roads here are horrible and in possible to drive on. Mostly because all gov money in the state and now soon the feds go for the non working man. There is no use for our life land if the people can't use it. I would rather them sell it off to people that could use it.

 

[hang fire]

Who maintains those roads and keeps them from washing out and increasing erosion?

Nobody maintains the roads and trails wife and use. Sandy washes are another favorite, they are akin to highways for off roaders and always get re-arranged back to pristine norm with any significant rain fall.

Most all trails and roads here around home are old mining roads and were scraped down to almost solid rock.

http://hstrial-rchambers.homestead.com/Photo_Gallery.html