robctwo
Member
The hole on the right is four rounds, then I moved the scope left one click and got two more rounds. BAR Lightweight Stalker with BOSS, sandbagged on a bench.
C'mon, guys. (accuracy claims)
- Thread starter MachIVshooter
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The hole on the right is four rounds, then I moved the scope left one click and got two more rounds. BAR Lightweight Stalker with BOSS, sandbagged on a bench.
Good_to_go
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Insecure shooter
A gun shoots only as good as the fella shootin it right.
I have have shot sub MOA three shot groups with every quality long gun I have fired, scope or peep sight, I can't do it with open sights.
You need to work on your trigger squeez and quit being scared of the recoil.
A gun shoots only as good as the fella shootin it right.
I have have shot sub MOA three shot groups with every quality long gun I have fired, scope or peep sight, I can't do it with open sights.
You need to work on your trigger squeez and quit being scared of the recoil.
cavemanforester
Member
WOW The truth will set us free. I thought I was the only no shootin sob out there. The "If I do my part" is a big "IF".
A lot of people (myself included) seem to get caught up in overall group size (with relatively few shots fired) as the best measure of accuracy.
Wouldn't a better measure be the average to center of a larger number of shots say 30-50. That would seem like a much more "accurate" (and realistic) measure of accuracy.
Just like the sun shines on every dog's rear end, statistically, every rifle and every shooter should shoot the occasional good three or even five shot group.
Wouldn't a better measure be the average to center of a larger number of shots say 30-50. That would seem like a much more "accurate" (and realistic) measure of accuracy.
Just like the sun shines on every dog's rear end, statistically, every rifle and every shooter should shoot the occasional good three or even five shot group.
sharpshooter1212
Member
got a buddy over in iraq pickin off towelheads at 900+ yards with headshots. to qualify for his position as a sniper he had to hit a target the size of a dime at 1,000 yards 3 times with a 100% average. doesnt sound like luck to me. might i also add that the military can put a missile within 1/8 of an inch of the intended target from thousands of miles away... repeatedly. as for civilian weapons i consider 3-500 yards with a high powered rifle a good shot. it takes patience and practice to become a good shot, and someone with the time to invest can certainly exceed any of your expectations whether you believe it or not. someone out there is alway better. take a look at the guy who hits a clay pigeon 8 times with a 12 gauge pump before it falls below the treeline. there is no such thing as impossible. keep that in mind.
Gungnir
Member
^^
And the claims continue to get more and more extreme, you are joking I presume.
And the claims continue to get more and more extreme, you are joking I presume.
sharpshooter1212
Member
absolutely not. take a look at the marine corps sniper training school, and see what you think.
LiquidTension
Member
Regarding ^ - 
I was given my first rifle, a 22 rimfire in 1949. Got my first center fire, a Win Mdl 70 270 w/ Weaver K 4 scope in 1952. Started reloading my ammo in 1953. I lived out in the country and measured off a 100, 200, and 300 yard range to test fire my reloads and practics shooting four positions. Some time later I constructed a bench rest. Over the years I have owned various brands of rifles and scopes.There were a few out of the box rifles like ,a Sako 222 Rem and Ruger 204 that would put 5 rounds into 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards. To get smaller groups from new factory rifles , I learned how to adjust trigger pull, glass bed action, and free float barrels. Took a few rifles to a gunsmith to recrown muzzels and lapp bolt locking lugs. I live in prairie dog country so I wont my P dog rifles to shoot 1/2 to 3/4 inch 100 yard groups. I can get one inch group out of most of my big game rifles. The smallest five shot 100 Yd group I have ever shot was 3/10 inch. I m 74 years old now and will settle for 3/4 inch groups...when Im luckey.
Well, I saw on an old Western movie where a frontier woman shot a rifle nearly straight up in the air and killed an Indian on a galloping horse 1,000 yards away. That's shootin'!
Seriously, I know there are some people who are very good shots, and I know there are some who exaggerate a whole lot. I'm an average shot, I suppose, and the older my eyes get the more average I become. I can still put some in the 10 ring at 100 yds iron sight, but not as often as I used to. Learning to appreciate scopes more all the time.
Seriously, I know there are some people who are very good shots, and I know there are some who exaggerate a whole lot. I'm an average shot, I suppose, and the older my eyes get the more average I become. I can still put some in the 10 ring at 100 yds iron sight, but not as often as I used to. Learning to appreciate scopes more all the time.
Tim the student
Member
Sharpshooter1212, you may believe that story, but I assure you I do not.
At best, you are misinformed.
At best, you are misinformed.
OP
OP
MachIVshooter
Member
ahahahha.
Within a few meters, yes. And hitting a dime at 1000 yards would be a lucky shot for a benchrest champion using PERFECTLY taylored ammo and a machine rested barreled action (the "rail gun" I mentioned earlier). A dime-sized group at that range would be 0.04 MOA, which is about 5 times better than the best shooter and rifle in the world are capable of. And with the optics used on military sniper rifles, you wouldn't even be able to see a dime at that range. Only thing coming from the end of a gun that can do that is a laser beam.
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baldeagle93
Member
MachIVshooter...nail, head...you hit it!!!
SSN Vet
Member
Did I ever tell you about Paul Bunyan and his blue oxe named Babe...
it's too is a tall tale.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
bracer, you're only a couple of years behind me.
klineia, what has become accepted over time about an accurate rifle is how consistent it is for the average size of five-shot groups. Blind luck will occasionally yield a very smal group, even from a crappy rifle. If, however, you get the same general size of group every time you test the rifle, you can then figure on its quality or capabilities. Day after day, not a large amount at one time.
Then you get into the human aspect. I've seen people who just could not judge a proper sight picture or coordinate with the trigger pull. It didn't seem to matter how much they wanted to "do right"; they just couldn't. Another factor is practice.
I set up my lifestyle to accomodate my love of shooting and hunting. I've had a benchrest and 100-yard backstop set up either in my yard or from my porch for over forty years. Lordy, I'm supposed to be better than the guy who shoots maybe a few boxes of cartridges in any given year.
Aside from the usual exaggerations about how big was the buck or the fish, most "Internet tight group" misinformation comes from the common human pattern of remembering the really good groups and ignoring the possibly-greater number of mediocre groups.
But there are a bunch of folks who are real picky about the quality of their gear and the competence of their skill...
klineia, what has become accepted over time about an accurate rifle is how consistent it is for the average size of five-shot groups. Blind luck will occasionally yield a very smal group, even from a crappy rifle. If, however, you get the same general size of group every time you test the rifle, you can then figure on its quality or capabilities. Day after day, not a large amount at one time.
Then you get into the human aspect. I've seen people who just could not judge a proper sight picture or coordinate with the trigger pull. It didn't seem to matter how much they wanted to "do right"; they just couldn't. Another factor is practice.
I set up my lifestyle to accomodate my love of shooting and hunting. I've had a benchrest and 100-yard backstop set up either in my yard or from my porch for over forty years. Lordy, I'm supposed to be better than the guy who shoots maybe a few boxes of cartridges in any given year.
Aside from the usual exaggerations about how big was the buck or the fish, most "Internet tight group" misinformation comes from the common human pattern of remembering the really good groups and ignoring the possibly-greater number of mediocre groups.
But there are a bunch of folks who are real picky about the quality of their gear and the competence of their skill...
OP
OP
MachIVshooter
Member
For all those who love to brag about their own and their friends or whomever's 500+ yard, .2 MOA or better groups, here is a couple examples of what it takes to produce those:
When you get into that level of precision, the human element is almost completely removed. It's all about the the "rifle", optic, ammo and careful calculation for atmospheric conditions.
When you get into that level of precision, the human element is almost completely removed. It's all about the the "rifle", optic, ammo and careful calculation for atmospheric conditions.
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Art:
That reminds me of the groups from my Super Grade .30-06 yesterday.
I don't know if the first two groups' extreme accuracy was the fluke, or if the last two groups' extreme inaccuracy was the fluke. The first two groups would take out a tick at 100 yards. I am certain that with the last two groups, at the very least, have by now impacted the earth, on some continent! I am reasonably convinced that they didn't fall on Iran, but if they did, I would feel powerful awful about my inaccuracy starting an international conflict.
Here are the pic if anyone wants to see. Please take a long look inside of the bore. Approximately 1/8th" to 1/4th" inside of the barrel, you will observe that there appear to be defects in the rifling. It looks at though something got caught between the mandrel and the tube during forging. I may have a Model 70 Super Grade issue, then again, I may not. It is a brand new rifle, and today was the first time for it at the range today.
The first 3-shot group measured about, well, you’ll see. After about 5 minutes of cool down in low 20s degrees, I fired another 3-shot group. Both groups were satisfactory. I allowed another 5 minutes cool down, and moved to target #2, to fire groups 3 and 4. I fired the 3rd, 3-shot group and well, it was okay, but not to my liking. I allowed it to cool and fired the 4th 3-shot group. It was also not up to my liking. But, heck, it’s a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. What room do I have to complain about those groups, right?!
Well, at first I was blaming myself and perhaps flinching. After all, those surgeries were recent. Could be me. So, I get home, and check the mounts and rings. Everything has held tight, zero movement (checked with torque wrench). I checked the stock, it remained torqued properly at 40 pounds.
I pulled the bolt and prepared to clean the bore. When I shined my flashlight inside, this is what I observed. Observations? Return it to Winchester? As an apart, the barrel is not running straight down the channel. It is slightly left. There is zero contact, and it is fully free-floated. Do I have a bedding issue, or a barrel issue? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Geno
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That reminds me of the groups from my Super Grade .30-06 yesterday.
I don't know if the first two groups' extreme accuracy was the fluke, or if the last two groups' extreme inaccuracy was the fluke. The first two groups would take out a tick at 100 yards. I am certain that with the last two groups, at the very least, have by now impacted the earth, on some continent! I am reasonably convinced that they didn't fall on Iran, but if they did, I would feel powerful awful about my inaccuracy starting an international conflict.Here are the pic if anyone wants to see. Please take a long look inside of the bore. Approximately 1/8th" to 1/4th" inside of the barrel, you will observe that there appear to be defects in the rifling. It looks at though something got caught between the mandrel and the tube during forging. I may have a Model 70 Super Grade issue, then again, I may not. It is a brand new rifle, and today was the first time for it at the range today.
The first 3-shot group measured about, well, you’ll see. After about 5 minutes of cool down in low 20s degrees, I fired another 3-shot group. Both groups were satisfactory. I allowed another 5 minutes cool down, and moved to target #2, to fire groups 3 and 4. I fired the 3rd, 3-shot group and well, it was okay, but not to my liking. I allowed it to cool and fired the 4th 3-shot group. It was also not up to my liking. But, heck, it’s a hunting rifle, not a target rifle. What room do I have to complain about those groups, right?!
Well, at first I was blaming myself and perhaps flinching. After all, those surgeries were recent. Could be me. So, I get home, and check the mounts and rings. Everything has held tight, zero movement (checked with torque wrench). I checked the stock, it remained torqued properly at 40 pounds.
I pulled the bolt and prepared to clean the bore. When I shined my flashlight inside, this is what I observed. Observations? Return it to Winchester? As an apart, the barrel is not running straight down the channel. It is slightly left. There is zero contact, and it is fully free-floated. Do I have a bedding issue, or a barrel issue? Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Geno
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JimKirk
Member
All that fancy machine work and precision, any you gotta go put a damn cardboard box on it!
Jimmy K
Jimmy K
Izzy77
Member
Good laugh w/ my morning coffee than you Pvt. Gomer pile.
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