CMP EIC match scores

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cdrt

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Anyone else waiting for the CMP to post the scores for the rifle and pistol EIC (Leg) matches that have happened since April?

I emailed them to see what was going on, since they usually post them within a few weeks. Seems that something is going up a match somewhere and they need to straighten that out before they'll post any scores. Just a little frustrating since a couple of us are ready to "leg" out but have to wait for them to fix whatever the problem is.

This is what they sent in response to my question:
Currently we are a little behind in the EIC Matches as we have one match that is holding us up. I hope to get a ruling on that match within the next couple of days and then the EIC matches will be caught up and points given.
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They are probably still chewing on the Navy EIC match where there was a protest because the Navy shooters are counted seperatly amongst themselvs for points and the civilians were told they could shoot in a Navy match for points. This put the eligable shooters for points in question.
 
Thanks for the clarification on what's going on. I was trying to figure out which match was causing the problem.

They did post the pistol EIC match I shot at the Panola Gun Club in Carthage, but they have not updated our individual records yet. And we just shot the Texas State Match pistol EIC match at Carrollton (Dallas Pistol Club). Two of us got enough points to leg out. Since I'm going to Camp Perry this year, I was hoping to get my Distinguished Pistol Medal presented to me there. :)
 
I would not worry to much about it. some of the problem is they issue the medals in the order in which they were won and not by the date the results were recieved. they also since last year are really good at getting current updates and even are doing the presentation on the stage of the ones who earned the DM there.

Just call ahead before you head down and try to talk to the person in charge as they may have your medal or can present you a loaner for the awards on stage.

Welcom to the club. DM 1762 rifle
Jon
 
Whatever match is holding up scores, it certainly has slowed down their response time at the CMP. Last year, when I got my first points at Panola, I had the medal and letter within two weeks.

Just wondering if anyone else has emailed them and what response they got. I'm sure they'll have it straightened out by Perry, but it would be nice to see them do some updating this week since they're about two months behind in posting scores.

Thanks by the way. I shot some Leg matches back in the 70s and 80s and never did that well. Since last year, I've shot 5 Leg matches and placed in each one. Luckily Panola gave out three legs last year at their match and three again this year, so there were several of us who got points, unlike some matches where there are just enough shooters for one leg.
 
For those who are interested, I just got an update from the CMP and they should start posting scores again next week or the week after.
 
Still "no joy" on this one. One of my shooting friends called about a Highpower question and found out they're still dealing with the All Navy match and how points were awarded. And they may go back and take a look at last year's All Navy.

Makes me sad that all these new Sailors can't add. :banghead:
 
The Navy matches have thrown a big monkey wrench in the works. This could inpact many shooters. I don't know why the Navy is different from other services in the Distinguished program. They don't even have a service rifle team these days.

I sent in a LEG match this week. They need to get on top of this before the nationals next month.

DR 1778
 
The issue is that someone called the CMP and asked if they'd be eligible for points in both the PACFLT match and All-Navy. The CMP said sure. A couple of people did just this last year and at least one shooter legged out as a result.

Someone who read the rule book (which says you can shoot in ONE military match in a year) protested the results and many of the top civie's at this year's All Navy match will get bumped out of eligibility.

They do need to get this straightened out and all the matches done before August. I am due 6pts from Coalinga in April and plan on legging out at Camp Perry.

Ty
 
30Cal

Thanks for the clarification on what's going on. Can't believe someone could not know what the rule book says...it's pretty plain that a civilian can only shoot one service sponsored match a year as part of their three CMP matches (not including Perry of course).

Good luck at Perry.
 
As of this morning (June 25), they're starting posting match scores again, but I can't see where they've updated any individual records.

The match I was watching (pistol at Carrollton, TX) is posted so my final scores are in. :) Just need my individual record updated.
 
The issue is that someone called the CMP and asked if they'd be eligible for points in both the PACFLT match and All-Navy. The CMP said sure. A couple of people did just this last year and at least one shooter legged out as a result.

Someone who read the rule book (which says you can shoot in ONE military match in a year) protested the results and many of the top civie's at this year's All Navy match will get bumped out of eligibility.

They do need to get this straightened out and all the matches done before August. I am due 6pts from Coalinga in April and plan on legging out at Camp Perry.
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I was at PACFLT and NAVY my EIC scores will only apparently count for the PACFLT all else is practice, I do not have a problem with it. I would prefer the military gets the prefrence for it rather than the civies.
 
SoCalShooter

Totally agree on your point about the military getting the points.

It's just too bad that someone at the CMP (or so it appears) gave out some bum dope, so someone checked the wrong box on their score card thinking they could get points at a second Service sponsored match.

Can't imagine how many records they had to check, but it should not have happened. All it takes is two minutes to read the rule book.
 
I shot in both the Pac Fleet and All Navy EICs this year and it was the first time I participated in either (and is actually only the 2nd and 3rd EICs I ever shot in). I pre-regged for both at the same time.

After shooting the Pac Fleet, I overheard someone talking about the points cutoff and how it was based on the Navy shooters as opposed to the 10%. Anyway, so when I got home and looked through the rulebook I found the rule about shooting in one service sponsored match each year. I never knew of this rule before. I knew that people had shot in both matches each year in the previous years and received points from both, which is why I had assumed there was no issue shooting in both the PacFleet and All Navy.

So I decided to email the CMP competitions division for clarification and was told that yes, I could shoot in both matches and receive points.

Personally, if they decide to only allow the Pac Fleet and disregard the All Navy, I have no issues with it.

What I will be concerned with is if civilians who shot in both the Pac Fleet and All Navy in the same year (in previous years) and received points from both (or in any 2 service sponsored EICs in a single year) in years in which that rule was in the rulebook, get to keep their points.

It will definitely suck to revoke points (and Distinguished medals) because of past violations, but that's the only fair way to play it if the CMP is going to enforce the rule this time around.
 
ocabj

I think that this is why it's taken so long for them to post match results. It's my understanding from a previous post that they were going back and looking at last year's Navy matches and may take points away from individuals.

The award schedule is the same for a Service match as it is for a civilian sponsored match. Everyone is eligible for points if non-distinguished and the table in the rule book applies on how they hand out points. The only difference is, if you get points at a Service match, it is up to the competitor to send the match results to the CMP with a request to get their points. All you need to be is in the top 10% of non-distinguished shooters. Rule 10.2.4

I'm surprised that they let you register for two Service matches in the same year, but I guess they figured you might miss one or something.
 
SoCalShooter

Yeah this is why you can order the NRA pistol rule book. Know the rules and follow them.
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Just a note. CMP EIC matches are governed by the CMP and their rule book which is available as a download at their website. It was recently updated for 2007.

The NRA rule book governs the Distinguished Revolver program and other NRA events and of course, you have to buy a copy from them; not available on line.

Just wanted to clarify who rules on what, for new shooters out there who may be reading these posts.
 
I'm surprised that they let you register for two Service matches in the same year, but I guess they figured you might miss one or something.
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Your match registration goes to the match director who wouldn't have any way to check eligibility. You can fire in as many leg matches as you want (space permitting), but that doesn't mean you'll be eligible for points. There's a box on your scorecard that says "are you eligible to receive leg points."

I don't think the CMP checked for eligiblity in the past. I imagine that's what the hold-up is with the scores. That and trying to figure out how many points and which people get them for All-Navy.
 
I think that this is why it's taken so long for them to post match results. It's my understanding from a previous post that they were going back and looking at last year's Navy matches and may take points away from individuals.
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If that is the case, it also affects other shooters who received points in matches that distinguished shooters who went distinguished using points obtained from two service EICs in the same year, participated in.

For example, let us assume shooter A went distinguished using points from say the PacFleet and All Navy from the same year. Lets say that shooter then participated in one civilian EICs afterwards as distinguished and finished 3rd out of 90 overall with 80 being non-distinguished. As it stood before, the CMP awarded the top 8 with points and shooter A was not given points or counted since that person was non-distinguished. If the CMP revokes points received from one of the service EICs, then that shooter loses distinguished status and is now non-distinguished in the results of that civilian EIC event. That means the 8th shooter, shooter B, who did get points will now lose the points since shooter A will now earn points from the civilian EIC.

Hopefully that made sense.
 
My understanding is that the EIC rules follow the NRA pistol rules that is why I noted it.
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Yes and no.

A .45 1911 that is legal for CMP EIC matches is certainly legal for NRA Outdoor Conventional Pistol (Bullseye) matches, but a legal NRA .45 may or may not be legal for EIC matches. The NRA allows lighter trigger pulls, red dots, etc., so unless the shooter has specifically set up his pistol for both, his NRA legal pistol may not be CMP legal.

The same goes for what the CMP considers a legal Service Rifle and what the NRA rules state.

Also, the CMP awards points based on their ".6" schedule while the NRA uses ".5" for their Distinguished Revolver program. You need a minimum of 6 non-distinguished to give out leg points in an EIC match, but only 5 for the DR program (as of their latest rule change).

Yes, in general they are the same, but there are some very major differences and shooters need to know them. We had one guy show up for the EIC match at Dallas earlier this month with a .45 1911 that was totally not legal for the EIC match simply because it had the extra relief cuts on the front of the slide.

If that is the case, it also affects other shooters who received points in matches that distinguished shooters who went distinguished using points obtained from two service EICs in the same year, participated in.
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All we have is conjecture on what the CMP is going to do. I asked them the question when I started this thread and they did not give me an answer. My best guess (and that's all it is) is they may fix this year, but not open that huge can of worms for past matches. Who knows. We'll see what happens as they post more scores and update individual records.
 
I received a forward of the official CMP response to this issue (that has yet to be posted by the CMP).

But basically, with respects to the 2007 Pac Fleet and All Navy, the CMP will not count any score in the All Navy for any shooter that shot in both events.

The CMP will not revoke points or medals for those that violated rule 10.2.2 in previous years.
 
Thanks. Looks like my guess was right.

Now, if they'll just post the response and update individual records before Camp Perry. :)
 
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