This does not sound accurate to me. Bad data or intentional distortion?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/health/us-children-gun-deaths-dg
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/29/health/us-children-gun-deaths-dg
CNN is claiming that CDC statistics show guns kill more children than cars
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Targa
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CNN as well as the CDC lol. Their truth and the truth of their worshippers is whatever they want it to be.
The definition of "child" is in question. Anyone below the age of 18 is considered a child in the data, but when sorted we see that the largest segment of the data is 15-18.
ColoradoMinuteMan
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What is unfortunate is that it is indeed an alarming statistic and really unprecedented in the history of our country. Unfortunately, there really isn’t any public or political appetite to deal with the situation, just simply make noise about guns. Clearly is a people problem here that nobody will address.
dogtown tom
Member
50% of all statistics are lies.
^^^ THIS!
Even in Iowa we have more 14 year-olds shooting people than dying in car accidents.
I'm disappointed in the reports, but not surprised. It takes a lot to get killed in a car accident anymore, and trauma medicine can work miracles, too. We have a cultural problem where too many kids are surrounded by gangs and limited by poverty.
I'm disappointed in the reports, but not surprised. It takes a lot to get killed in a car accident anymore, and trauma medicine can work miracles, too. We have a cultural problem where too many kids are surrounded by gangs and limited by poverty.
Anchorite
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This is a link to what’s been described as a “landmark study” by some. Although dated 2016, it’s still worthy of the discussion, and very likely a higher figure today.
The cdc does not have a metric for medical malpractice that I am aware of, but it’s the third leading cause of death in the US, according to this John’s Hopkins study.
I always like to ask the antis if they are “aware” of how many medically negligent deaths there are in the US. I get dumbfounded looks and blank stares each time.
And now there are efforts in Congress to throw more money at the CDC to study guns. I’m shaking my head that we, as a nation, kill so many of our own, in the very hospital safe-zones where the sick and injured seek treatment. Forget the radicalized gunman, the lone wolf….I’m scared of the guy with the mask and scalpel.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...rs_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us
The cdc does not have a metric for medical malpractice that I am aware of, but it’s the third leading cause of death in the US, according to this John’s Hopkins study.
I always like to ask the antis if they are “aware” of how many medically negligent deaths there are in the US. I get dumbfounded looks and blank stares each time.
And now there are efforts in Congress to throw more money at the CDC to study guns. I’m shaking my head that we, as a nation, kill so many of our own, in the very hospital safe-zones where the sick and injured seek treatment. Forget the radicalized gunman, the lone wolf….I’m scared of the guy with the mask and scalpel.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...rs_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us
Roverguy
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2020 data shows 39 thousand vehicle related deaths and 45 thousand firearms related deaths, about half of which are suicides. So, with suicides included, it’s possible to construe data in such a way that gun related deaths exceed vehicle related deaths among a certain demographic that might credibly be labeled “children”.
Or something quite like that will have been written by CNN’s law Dept or their external counsel.
Or something quite like that will have been written by CNN’s law Dept or their external counsel.
mcb
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Yes the CDC age brackets break down as follows
0-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24,
Almost every that claims "children" when using the CDC data uses the first four groups 0-19.
In 2020 the CDC reports the following firearms related homicides for "children"
0-4: 85
5-9: 91
10-14: 218
15-19: 2417
Unintentional moto vehicle deaths, occupant.
0-4: 88
5-9: 74
10-14: 134
15-19: 726
Unintentional moto vehicle deaths, pedestrian.
0-4: 94
5-9: 63
10-14: 78
15-19: 217
If you take out the 15-19 its pretty even between the two, guns vs motor vehicles.
Lots of good data can be delved at the CDC's website.
0-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24,
Almost every that claims "children" when using the CDC data uses the first four groups 0-19.
In 2020 the CDC reports the following firearms related homicides for "children"
0-4: 85
5-9: 91
10-14: 218
15-19: 2417
Unintentional moto vehicle deaths, occupant.
0-4: 88
5-9: 74
10-14: 134
15-19: 726
Unintentional moto vehicle deaths, pedestrian.
0-4: 94
5-9: 63
10-14: 78
15-19: 217
If you take out the 15-19 its pretty even between the two, guns vs motor vehicles.
Lots of good data can be delved at the CDC's website.
Why do you assume that it's one of those two options?
I recalled discussion of far more children dying from other means than guns. I did not consider 18 year old children, nor suicides or gang bangers. As others have said, if you control the definitions, you control the argument.
Plenty of "discussion" about that. Doesn't mean it's true. Let me ask this. Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that what they say is true and more "children" (however that's defined) are killed with guns than with cars. Does that make any difference to anyone here?
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mcb
Member
It appears it may be true. The data is publicly accessible. If you don't like the conclusion CNN made with the data you are free to examine the data and draw your own conclusion.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/index.html
Targa
Member
Not even a little bearcreek. The gun didn't do a thing, but every time these happen the actual issues of why it happened are dismissed for the same old the guns are the problem rhetoric. It absolutely disgusts me as well as the people who are pushing the garbage and the people who are buying into it.
Doesn't matter to me either. Yet, many in the "gun community" seem to want to rely very heavily on crime statistics to "prove" the validity of their "rights" to the "anti's".
I think it is important to challenge these assertions when they are made. A 19 year-old gangbanger isn't a child.
Have things changed this much in the 6 years since this report was issued? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754 That included 19 year-olds too.
Have things changed this much in the 6 years since this report was issued? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754 That included 19 year-olds too.
bdickens
Member
interesting that vehicle accident dealth dropped so much in the mid 2000s.
it isn't new though. Mass Shootings Are Fraction of Child Gun Deaths in the U.S. | Time
it breaks down as an inner city, gang and crime issue. very heavily. so, children and teens are more likely to die by gun violence, if you are a minority and live in the inner city where gangs and crime are rampant. to leave that out of the info presented in the article is well, lets just say it took me 2 minutes to figure that out, and they left it out, so - make your assumptions as to why.
My analysis would be they want to stress guns being the issue, not inner city gangs and gang violence and crimes, mostly commited by minorities. That's just how I put it together, not that the data itself is wrong. What is the quote, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
it isn't new though. Mass Shootings Are Fraction of Child Gun Deaths in the U.S. | Time
it breaks down as an inner city, gang and crime issue. very heavily. so, children and teens are more likely to die by gun violence, if you are a minority and live in the inner city where gangs and crime are rampant. to leave that out of the info presented in the article is well, lets just say it took me 2 minutes to figure that out, and they left it out, so - make your assumptions as to why.
My analysis would be they want to stress guns being the issue, not inner city gangs and gang violence and crimes, mostly commited by minorities. That's just how I put it together, not that the data itself is wrong. What is the quote, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
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mcb
Member
The propensity is this thread to just say they are lying with numbers without taking a look at the raw data itself puzzles me. Anytime I read an article like that and they provide the source for their data I go look at that raw data and how it was collected. If they don't site a source for their data I don't read the article. If they do source their data I look at it to make sure I agree with how they are using the data.
-The Truth does not mind being questioned, a Lie does not like being challenged.
-If it can be destroyed by Truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the Truth.
Don't run from the data, understand the data, and use it to support your truths!
-The Truth does not mind being questioned, a Lie does not like being challenged.
-If it can be destroyed by Truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the Truth.
Don't run from the data, understand the data, and use it to support your truths!
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Look closely at those statistics. All that had to happen was for cars or traffic patterns to get slightly safer (or people to travel less due to, say, a pandemic
) and for there to be a few more guns and for the culture to continue to degenerate and I think it'd be easy for guns to close the small gap and pass up cars.
Phaedrus/69
Member
Isn't 18 pretty much the cutoff in most of the US? That's been pretty universal at least everywhere I've lived. I realize some states (mostly southern) have different ages for driving, marriage, etc. but for the most part in the US the age of 18 is where you are recognized as an adult. From I can see the information there is completely accurate, nothing I've found at other sources contradicts it. Obviously if you want to spin things to fit your agenda you could invent new age categories, etc.
Look closely at those statistics. All that had to happen was for cars or traffic patterns to get slightly safer (or people to travel less due to, say, a pandemic
A lot of 16 year olds aren’t interested in getting their drivers license anymore. It’s getting common for kids to wait years. Add in not driving to school for 2 years and that right there covers a lot of ground. In all my years of driving I think half the accidents I was in involved getting to or from high school.
it’s already illegal for anyone under 21 to go buy a pistol. I wonder what % of those deaths are from handguns by people too young to own them. What % are from suicides? Banning assault rifles or other “common sense” laws aren’t going to have the impact gun grabbers think it would. Not that it matters, they’d just keep pushing more restrictive laws.
At the federal level, it is legal for 18-20 year olds to buy handguns, as long as it's from a private individual and not a dealer.
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