"Cocked and Locked" Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

TheProf

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
723
1. How long can you keep a gun "cocked and locked"? Do any of you keep your gun in this condition for days at a time...?

2. Should the mechanism that keeps the hammer back fail...in the "cocked" position...I am assuming that the hammer would slam down and cause a AD. Or..would the hammer slam down, but not set off the round...due to the trigger not being pulled? (I am interested in how this would work in 1911...and also in the new Sig P238...which is like a mini 1911, albeit a .380 caliber.)
 
1) YES

2) The round would NOT fire, due to a variety of safety features that are present. The 1/2 cock or 1/4 cock notch for one, the firing pin safety for another. Nowadays, it's usually both.
 
My Ruger P89 is a DA with a decocker/safety. I like it because I can have one in the barrel with the safety on and when needed all I have to do is take the safety off and pull the trigger or I can pull the hammer back and then shoot.
 
Last edited:
1911 in condition one, unless I'm cleaning or shooting. I change the mainspring yearly.
 
TheProf said:
1. How long can you keep a gun "cocked and locked"? Do any of you keep your gun in this condition for days at a time...?

2. Should the mechanism that keeps the hammer back fail...in the "cocked" position...I am assuming that the hammer would slam down and cause a AD. Or..would the hammer slam down, but not set off the round...due to the trigger not being pulled? (I am interested in how this would work in 1911...and also in the new Sig P238...which is like a mini 1911, albeit a .380 caliber.)
Click to expand...
I have read reports where as a 1911 has been cocked and locked for years. I keep one in that condition all of the time in the shop. Been there for 9 years now.

I blow the dirt off it every year and put a mag through it. Now a 1911 JMB design clone should have a half cock notch in the hammer that would catch the hammer if it fell.

Due to certain state regulation for drop testing, most new design guns have a firing pin block to assist with preventing AD. New 1911 also incorporate this additionally mandated feature.

Springfield Armory 1911 clones have a second catch grove to catch a falling hammer and the use a 9 mm titanium light weight firing pin and heavy spring to pass the drop test.

Regards Pappy
 
David E....would this be true of the Sig P238?
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you're going to pocket carry it, make sure you use a holster that keeps the safety on.
 
I was thinking of carrying the Sig P238 IWB ...at the 1:00 position (Strong side appendix carry.) In that position, its pointing you know where. If the hammer falls for ANY reason...aside from the trigger being pulled........ I want to make sure it doesn't fire.
 
How often do you change the leaf spring?
Click to expand...


Mine has independent suspension. LOL.

I change all springs yearly, including mags. Springs are cheap. Shooters are based on round count.
 
TheProf said:
I was thinking of carrying the Sig P238 IWB ...at the 1:00 position (Strong side appendix carry.) In that position, its pointing you know where. If the hammer falls for ANY reason...aside from the trigger being pulled........ I want to make sure it doesn't fire.
Click to expand...
I am not qualified to answer that question as I have no experience with SIG nor will I work on one in my shop. Nothing against the gun just a parts supply issue and too much custom 1911 and Beretta work to do.
 
EddieNFL said:
Mine has independent suspension. LOL.

I change all springs yearly, including mags. Springs are cheap. Shooters are based on round count.
Click to expand...
Smart Man......the leaf spring controls the trigger return, the sear engagement and return and activation and the disconnector. It is a very important spring and very often forgotten.
 
It is a very important spring and very often forgotten.
Click to expand...

The plunger and mag-catch springs are forgotten by many. A failure wouldn't necessarily put you out of action, but it could.
 
There are people here certainly more knowledgeable than I, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

First, I'd prefer not leave a 1911 cocked and locked for long periods of time. I see no reason to leave moving parts in a position of stress and tension, but other people seem to think it's perfectly safe. It seems to me like it would accelerate wear.

As for the rest of your question, it depends. If the full cock notch shatters, the half-cock will catch the hammer.

If the sear itself breaks, there is nothing to get caught in the half-cock notch, and the gun will fire, IF:

1) There's a round in the chamber.
2) The gun is a series 70 or is otherwise not equipped with a firing pin safety.

As far as I know, the thumb safety and grip safety impede movement of the hammer via the trigger assembly/sear, so if the sear were to shatter the thumb safety and grip safety wouldn't do anything.
 
Echo9, excellent explanation. Most modern 1911s don't even have a half cock notch. (at least not one I would trust) The grip safety only blocks the trigger and the thumb safety only blocks the sear. If the thumb safety is properly fitted and functioning it is a safe arrangment. Leaving a 1911 cocked and locked for years will place less wear on the springs than years of shooting it will. If I plan on storing one for a long time it will be oiled, unloaded and decocked.
 
Haven't quite reached forever, but my current carry piece has spent at least 99 percent of it's seven year life in condition one. A couple before that even longer.
 
Tension on springs does not cause wear and fatigue so long as you do not put the springs into coil bind. If you bind a spring, then no matter what you're toasting it.

Cycling a spring will cause it to fatigue much more quickly than leaving a spring loaded (but not in bind) for years and years on end.

Theoretically a spring loaded short of bind but never cycled will maintain it's spring rate for eternity.
 
Thingster said:
Tension on springs does not cause wear and fatigue so long as you do not put the springs into coil bind. If you bind a spring, then no matter what you're toasting it.

Cycling a spring will cause it to fatigue much more quickly than leaving a spring loaded (but not in bind) for years and years on end.

Theoretically a spring loaded short of bind but never cycled will maintain it's spring rate for eternity.
Click to expand...
Excellent post! It's the movement action that wears out springs
 
Theoretically a spring loaded short of bind but never cycled will maintain it's spring rate for eternity.
Click to expand...

I agree, but don't like to put a lot of faith in theories. Springs are cheap.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Sig P238 Is there a hammer block?
Replies
2
Views
930
FiveFiveSixFan
F
M
  • Locked
Sig P238 .380 - Condition 1 or 2 Carry?
Replies
13
Views
8K
GrandmasterB
G
weblance
  • Locked
Cocked & Locked or Hammer Down, Safety Off
Replies
20
Views
2K
Kiln
K
M
  • Locked
cocked and locked
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
Handy
H
1
  • Locked
1911s: why safer cocked and locked?
2 3
Replies
63
Views
3K
45crittergitter
4
Back
Top