Cocked & Locked ~ Or Not

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gizamo

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Curious if anyone else has moved away from C&L....
I was a die-hard, and when I carry a .45 Colt ~ it is Cocked and Locked..

I just don't seem to carry them much anymore. I have gone over to a compact that is a SA/DA with a decocker. And frankly, that is how I prefer to carry these days. After the first trigger pull, it is back in single action mode. And frankly, there is less to think about.

So what is it, C&L or not....?

And, ~ Please let me know why.....


Giz
 
Dont carry a 1911 so theres no C&L for me.

Its either DAO, no safety(PM9) or XD9 with one in the pipe. Dont touch the trigger unless something needs to be shot.
 
1911 - Condition One.

CZ 75B - Condition One is an option with it's thumb safety
or I can manually lower the hammer for DA first shot carry.

The 4 rvovlers I have are Condition Zero.

But the 1911 is the go to gun, as I have used them since the
USN '72-'78 so tiz a no brainer.

Randall
 
I carry a 1911, so yes, but if I carried a DA/SA pistol that was able to be C&L, that's how I'd carry it just for a consistant trigger pull.
 
I've seen people with an uncocked 1911 in their holster. Their reasoning: they don't want the gun to "go off". They obviously know nothing about the design of the pistol.

Someday when I can afford close to $1000 for a reliable 19ll or BHP I'll have one, it'll be carried in condition 1.
 
The thing is that I have far more experience with the 1911 platform than anything else. I've competed with it (IPSC, Limited and Limited 10 divisions) and been through quite a number of classes with it. So I know that I manage and shoot it well and have confidence that I can manage and shoot it tolerably well under stress. For those reasons, it continues to be my roscoe of choice for social duties. And of course, I see no good reason to carry a 1911 in any way other than condition 1.

Another factor is that I don't manage a DA/SA or DAO auto-loader as well. Most have too long a trigger reach for me to handle comfortably and well.

I can also handle some small frame DA revolvers pretty well, especially if they've had decent action jobs. I'll have a J Frame S&W in the pocket of my robe when I'm up late. But I still prefer a 1911.

I am, however, experimenting with the H&K P7M8. With the squeeze cocker action, it certainly eliminates any concerns anyone might have about C&L carry. It's also a wonderfully compact and easy to carry and conceal gun.
 
My only negligent discharge was with a DA/SA. It's purely psychological on my part, but Since that incident I'm only P7M8 or cocked & locked for carry.
 
C&L for me

I carry C&L but perform a safety check after I clean the gun. No problem with a good gun in good condition carried C&L.
 
If you have a single action pistol and there are proper working safeties then there should be no problem in a C&L position.
 
I like my CZ 75 P-01 with the decocker. I prefer decocking the pistol, rather than having any other manual safety to worry about, and it feels "right" to me. The longer DA pull is my "safety", and with my good holster, which completely covers the trigger, I feel completely safe. I love the P-01.
 
If you wish to carry 1911...

Better carry in cocked and locked and OWB and with zero garment obstruction over it. Why? Bcuz the 1911 in its greatest state of readiness is in condition 1. JMB may not advocate it, but others will argue of course, but its the only condition where the 1911 can somehow level-off with the others in the readiness over any point and shoot pistols; like glock, Taurus/beretta and other DA/sa or SA/da for that matter.

A proficient revolver guy can outshoot a 1911 guy anytime of the day, if the 1911 pistol is in anyway concealed heavily. My take, the more you conceal the more difficult to draw. With the 1911 you need to reduce the limiting factors that may slow you down in going to your first shot. Outer garments must be in a way that can be easily swipe away to easily draw the weapon. Second, a proficiency must be attained in disengaging the safety as you reached for the pistol and the pistol is ready to fire as you level the gun to the target. Everything has to work in one fluid, clockwork motion.

Having the 1911 in C&L is not an assurance for a faster shot. The mindset has to go over beyond that. Fashion apparel can be detrimental in getting your 1911 to its first shot.
 
combatantr2, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Carrying concealed is another matter entirely. There may be many good reasons, under a variety of circumstances, to carry your gun concealed. That's not what this discussion is about.

But assuming you are going to carry concealed, a 1911 in condition 1 puts you at no disadvantage over any other type of guns, as long as you train and practice properly.

Most of us who have trained at the major schools with a 1911 have learned to shoot it with a high thumb (the thumb riding the safety). Upon the draw stroke, the safety is naturally disengaged as the gun is brought to firing position. And other than that, presenting a 1911 in condition 1 is no different from presenting any other thype of gun.
 
A proficient revolver guy can outshoot a 1911 guy anytime of the day, if the 1911 pistol is in anyway concealed heavily. My take, the more you conceal the more difficult to draw.
Click to expand...
This is simply not so. And I think Jeff Cooper more than adequately demonstrated that there is no gun faster to an accurate first shot out of the holster than a cocked & locked single action auto in the hands of a highly proficient shooter.

The safety is disengaged as you clear leather and raise the gun up to fire. This takes place after you have swept the concealing garment aside (and it doesn't take longer to sweep a coat aside from a 1911 than it does from a revolver), and is easily performed in the space of time it takes to bring the pistol on target. Then once you're on target, you have a shorter, lighter trigger pull that lets you shoot just a fraction of a second faster if you're proficient enough to exploit it. And then, you'll be faster on follow up shots as well if you are proficient enough.

I carry a cocked & locked BHP SFS off duty (I'd carry my 1911 if my department would let me), and I can draw and shoot it as fast or faster than my duty Glock, or any of the several revolvers I own. The safety is simply not a limiting factor.
 
I carry a Glock, so it is probably not appropriate to call it 'cocked and locked'. However, my carry Glock always has one up the stack. Why? "If it isn't loaded, it isn't any use as a defensive firearm."
 
Billy,

Not so,

If you go through the time period between Bill Jordan up to the amazing speed of say a Jerry Mikulek ~ the C&L 1911 will not get off the first shot. Bill Jordan is actually on record as saying that the SA is faster on the first shot then the DA revolver, even though he supported the DA design and helped to bring about the S&W model 19..... And Jerry is perhaps a freak of nature, but the proof is in the pudding and he has beaten so many of our finest 1911 shooters in the process, that it just cannot be argued all that much...

I have shot both on a competitive level. My gut tells me that the average shooter under duress, will be better served by the revolver. I collect, love, and spend way to much money on SA's...But would only carry a DA revolver for personal defense. Why, because it is the most foolproof...


Giz

Giz
 
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