Cocked & Locked?

[Dave T]

I have trained over 1000 people in my CCW classes and seen a number of Springfield V-10s in that time. I have never seen one that functioned reliably out of the box. They seem to be the worst of the compact/chopped down 1911s in terms of functional reliability. By the way, the Kimber Ultra Carry appears to be the best (most reliable).

YMMV!

 

[1911Tuner]

Chopped 1911 Variants

Yep...Variant. Deviant. Even the Colt Commander fits the category, and
even though Commanders function well across the board, some of those can be a little high-strung. The Commander shares many common parts with the 1911, but it's NOT a 1911.

The wild card is... Timing. Slide weight/recoil spring rates that stray very far from the original specs bring on conditions that the pistols weren't designed to operate under.

The lighter slides require a stiffer spring to reduce frame to slide impact
in recoil...AND...to provide enough momentum to strip a round and
chamber it. Heavier springs and faster rates speed up the slide on the
return stroke, making magazine timing more critical. The heavier spring
also makes the pistol more grip sensitive.

The reduced momentum reduces the operating window of opportunity
on the extractor tension...The pistol isn't as forgiving of overtensioning
because the momentum that ordinarily would overcome the resistance of the extractor is about 10% less...and the heavier spring won't always
make up the difference.

These pistols can be persuaded to run reliably, but it can be a challenge with some of the more stubborn examples. Moreover, once you find the
sweet spot, a tired recoil spring/changing the recoil spring can send you
straight back to Square One. Been there, done that. Even a variation in the ammunition can be an issue in some of'em.

I advise against carrying any 1911 or variant that is shorter than Commander-length. Buy'em...Shoot'em...Enjoy'em. Just don't put your faith in'em if your life may hang in the balance...and test the Commanders and clones thoroughly prior to strappin' one on.

On the flip side, the Colt Defenders are much better than the Officer's model in this respect. Maybe the heavier tapered barrel and reverse
plug recoil system with its shorter spring has something to do with this.
I can't speculate further because I don't own either of them to experiment with, and I haven't had a chance to test one of the above mentioned
Kimbers (with a similar system) beyond shooting one that belongs to a friend.

Just my experience. Any one of the above variants may be an exceptional example, but each one must be judged on an individual basis. Squirrely
pistols come in full-size too, just not as often as the choppers.

Be happy!
Tuner

 

[dav]

BluesBear and 1911Tuner,

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I have trained over 1000 people in my CCW classes and seen a number of Springfield V-10s in that time. I have never seen one that functioned reliably out of the box. They seem to be the worst of the compact/chopped down 1911s in terms of functional reliability. By the way, the Kimber Ultra Carry appears to be the best (most reliable).

That sounds right from what I've seen, also, though I've seen not nearly as many. I know of only 2 V-10s, but both of them have reliability problems. I wanted this gun also, until these 2 people reported the problems to me, though I thought it quite heavy. I instead paid the extra for a Kimber Ultra CDP, and have never been sorry.

 

[1911Tuner]

Muncie BANG

BluesBear said:

While we were chatting it escaped. I watched as it slide out from under his arm, traveled past his waist and as it slid down the outside of his left leg it rotated to muzzle down position which is where it was when it reached the floor and went...

Anything is subject to happen when guns get dropped, I reckon...but
about the only way that I can see this is with the thumb safety off or
BADLY defective, the sear spring worn out or overtweaked and the trigger
heavy enough for the momentum to cause it to trip the sear...or the firing
pin was long enough for the tip to reach the primer. If the gun hits muzzle
up, the firing pin would move away from the round...assuming that it's
not too long to begin with. I'd like to have a look at the pistol.

On the other end of it...Bet you had to change your shorts.

 

[BluesBear]

1911tuner,

In addition to my horrid grammar in that post, I negelected to clarify that the pistol was in Condition 2.

Condition 2 makes the firing pin about 2mm closer to the primer.

I started doing testing after that using six 1911 pattern pistols.
2 G.I. Surplus, 3 Colt Government and 1 Colt LW Commander.

Dropping them from armpit height muzzle down onto blocks of very hard rubber blocks used in vibrating conveyors. Loaded with resized case loaded only with a CCI 300 Large Pistol primer.

All six would fire a primed case in condition 2 about at least ½ of the time.
Only one GI and one Government would fire in Condition 1 and only about 2 or 3 out of 10 tries.

By swapping the firing pin springs from one gun to the next, it was determind that the springs were at fault. Whichever gun had one of the weaker springs would fire 2 or 3 out of 10.

Funny thing is one of the Government models that fired was NIB.



Easy fix is just don't drop your weapon.



(Changing shorts time was a month before, when I was shot at the Hartford City Gun Show)




etided ofr speeling - what the heck is a bloack?

 

[1911Tuner]

BluesBear's Drop Test

Well, dayumm...Ya learn somethin' every day it seems. Maybe the reason
for Colt's Series80 system isn't to make it muzzle-down drop safe, but
muzzle UP!

The only physics-related answer is that in con-2, the pin is bouncing off
the hammer and making it to the primer with enough punch to fire it.
Very good argument for keeping a fresh firing pin spring in the gun.

As for the NIB question...In the past decade or so, I've noticed that Colt's
factory firing pin springs aren't quite as lively as they could be. Maybe for
reliable ignition with hard primers, since there's still a lot of surplus GI
ball around.

You realize of course, that your post will send me back to the la-BOR-a-tory.
(He said with a Karloff accent) I intend to see if I can duplicate that
bounce-fire with Wolff firing pin springs and/or hiw much difference is
noted with stock Colt springs.

Stand by....

Tuner

 

[BluesBear]

Another think i forgot to mention was that on the muzzle down drop test, when in Condition 2, even when it didn't fire, there was more often than not a small dent in the primer.

My theory, and supported by others I discussed this with at the time, was that with the hammer down the firing pin was about 2mm closer to the primer and that 2mm was enough to increase the potential for firing. With the hammer cocked you'd have to overcome all of the tension of the firing pin spring.

You have to remember this was the early 1980s. Lightweight firing pins or heavy FP springs weren't commonplace back then.

BTW all of the firing pn springs looked normal. You couldn't tell by looking which was weaker.

 

[1911Tuner]

FP Springs

BluesBear said:

BTW all of the firing pn springs looked normal. You couldn't tell by looking which was weaker.

Here lately, the Colt springs that come in the Series 80 pistols are shorter than my Wolff and Nowlin replacement springs, and compressing them
in the tunnels give a much softer "feel".

I also have a suspicion that the firing pin lengths may be out-of-spec...either overall or from the tip to the shoulder and shoulder to
butt. The pistol shouldn't fire when dropped butt first. Somethin's
outta whack. I need to go ahead and get a Khunhausen manual to
get the specs on the firing pins so I can compare a few...

Dee-tective Tuner is on da case!

 

[BluesBear]

The pistol shouldn't fire when dropped butt first.

I agree. All of my tests were done muzzle down.

The only thing that will happen dropping a 1911 pattern pistol butt down will be damage to the hammer or grip safety tang. Droppin git butt down actually pulls the firing pin away from the primer.

 

[1911Tuner]

Drop Test

BluesBear said:

I agree. All of my tests were done muzzle down.


Ah! Okay. I need to read carefuller

I thought you had drop tested it in both directions. Not as
concerned with muzzle down as butt-first. Bustin' a cap
muzzle up is WAY bad mojo...

Gotta git! Cats ta kill and contracts ta fill.

Tuner