Colt 1911
- Thread starter Chipr62
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NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Looks like a restrike to me......pics of the rest of the gun would help. This number would be for a 1913 comercial model, but if it started life as a US military gun, there should be inspectors marks on the other side near the mag release. This would confirm that the "C" shouldn't be there. The font doesn't look quite right for a 1913 production either. 
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Not sure I have it right but as near as I can tell the C means commercial and the year is 1913 and there were 3500 made. Colt Government Model .45 ACP (Commercial).
http://www.coltautos.com/1911gmpd.htm
@ NIGHTLORD... It is a 1911 but if you can magnify and study the numbers the C 4399 looks like it was struck over maybe 4793 for 4693. Called Colt and they could neither confirm or deny any restriking on their guns. I am hoping a 1911 Officianado will be able to help me. All the numbers DO correlate to at 1913 manufacture date.
Thank you James B. for the help too.
Thank you James B. for the help too.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Compare it to this one- see how clean the numbers are. I would say yours has almost certainly been altered.
I agree
243winxb
Member
The 3 looks like it was a 7 before.
C is for Civilian Model.
Early production model, having 1897, 1902, 1905, and 1911 patent dates in the slide markings (through serial range about C-4500).
http://www.nramuseum.com/gun-info-research/fake!.aspx
C is for Civilian Model.
Early production model, having 1897, 1902, 1905, and 1911 patent dates in the slide markings (through serial range about C-4500).
http://www.nramuseum.com/gun-info-research/fake!.aspx
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tark
Member
That is a restrike /altered #. Notice how the metal is raised around the numbers. Now, look at NIGHTLORD40Ks gun. No raised metal. In those days Colt stamped and then polished . Lately they have been doing the opposite, leaving ugly looking lettering with raised metal around the letters and numbers.
The gun itself looks beautiful. It appears to be a true commercial model, I don't see any inspector's stamps or "U.S. PROPERTY" marks anywhere. Do you have concerns about the Serial # ? As in possibly a stolen gun? The only issue I see with it is that an altered # will lower its value to a collector.
The gun itself looks beautiful. It appears to be a true commercial model, I don't see any inspector's stamps or "U.S. PROPERTY" marks anywhere. Do you have concerns about the Serial # ? As in possibly a stolen gun? The only issue I see with it is that an altered # will lower its value to a collector.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
Ugh, it's a dilemma. If you recently purchased it from a reputable FFL and just noticed the defacing, I would say you should return it and ask for a refund.
Buffing and acid etching might reveal the original serial number, but it would, of course ruin the finish.
Knowing (or suspecting) what you now do, even being in possession of it could cause problems if a LEO scrutinized it closely enough......and reselling it would be a huge no-no.
Ugh.
Old Dog
Member
Interesting thread. Hope the OP follows up and keeps us posted should additional information becomes known.
bannockburn
Member
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Chipr62
The serial number definitely looks to be altered. How did you come by this 1911?
The serial number definitely looks to be altered. How did you come by this 1911?
Jim Watson
Member
The "C" looks good, it was probably a real commercial model.
I think the digits were peened out with a punch and a new number struck with hand stamps.
I would try to get a real expert to examine it before dropping it off the fantail of the Titanic or something else drastic.
I think the digits were peened out with a punch and a new number struck with hand stamps.
I would try to get a real expert to examine it before dropping it off the fantail of the Titanic or something else drastic.
We (brother and I) purchased the handgun from gunbroker (buyer beware) We know now that the numbers appeared changed, just needed more opinions. I think the ATF rules state that if the serial number is altered the gun must be destroyed! I did check a lot of variations of the serial number on the Colt website and they all check out to be 1913 - 1911. Still, this burns my biscuits (and wallet!)
Jim Watson
Member
I would come down on the vendor and the site hard, with an expert opinion in my pocket and BATF at my side.
Scott Gahimer does authentication and evaluation, I would ask him.
http://m1911info.com/
Scott Gahimer does authentication and evaluation, I would ask him.
http://m1911info.com/
Unfortunately Jim, we bought this about two years ago and have been himming and hawwing about the gun. We do have the sellers FFL but the ATF probably would just seize it and destroy. We have concluded to cannibalize the parts and destroy the frame in accordance with ATF guidelines.
NIGHTLORD40K
Member
At this point, it might be best to avoid any "Imperial entanglements" with this one.
Yep, probably for the best- what a waste. Sorry, bro.
tark
Member
I would not destroy that gun. I would shoot it and enjoy it. It seems to me that the FFL who sold it to you is the one on the hook, not you. You simply bought the gun, not being an expert, in good faith. And I think the ATF probably has better things to do than hunting down 100+ year old 1911s with a suspicious looking serial#
Take a look at THIS mess. A very early #1 Mk 3 . Bought it at Gander Mountain a few years back. The original serial# is under the bottom slash. The middle # could be a 7 or a 1. They had it as a 1. I asked the clerk if that was going to be a problem and he said the ATF people that did a compliance check the month before were OK with it.
Take a look at THIS mess. A very early #1 Mk 3 . Bought it at Gander Mountain a few years back. The original serial# is under the bottom slash. The middle # could be a 7 or a 1. They had it as a 1. I asked the clerk if that was going to be a problem and he said the ATF people that did a compliance check the month before were OK with it.
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Don't destroy the pistol. After all, we don't know the history of the pistol. Could have been re serialized decades ago by someone re finishing, working on the pistol. Might have been Colt. I think there is enough uncertainty not to chop it up.
How about wearing it out by shooting it?
How about wearing it out by shooting it?
krs
Member
I can't see it well enough in the photos supplied. They're small and not well lit for close examination.
While the poor job done on that serial number would be more than enough to keep any half seasoned collector from buying the pistol, I'm sure that on close exam, especially an in-hand exam by a qualified assessor this one would show a wide range of discrepancies - part interchanges, reblue, etc., etc.
Hope it was cheap, and I sure wouldn't try to sell it.
While the poor job done on that serial number would be more than enough to keep any half seasoned collector from buying the pistol, I'm sure that on close exam, especially an in-hand exam by a qualified assessor this one would show a wide range of discrepancies - part interchanges, reblue, etc., etc.
Hope it was cheap, and I sure wouldn't try to sell it.
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