Colt 38 Fitzgerald Special/Detective Special

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I don't know how I missed this thread! Very informative one it is.... I defer to the expertise of Old Fuff and dfarisweel on the ins and outs of the Fitz Special. I've learned a lot about the subject in this one thread.

I just wanted to say.........
My point is, cutting away the front of the trigger guard does nothing for you, and can put a working cop in a situation where his gun can be disabled.
I have had two revolvers, one a Victory Model, the other a Model 10 pass through my hands with a trigger that binded on the trigger guard, rendering the gun inoperable or at least giving it a "sticky trigger."

When you pistol whip someone, a full trigger guard is no guarantee that it will not become bent and disable the gun if it makes skull contact. Of course, a cut away trigger guard is almost certain to do so.
 
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See post #38.

... the Fitz Special was intended to be carried in a pocket, and the design was dictated by the purpose. At the time it was far less controversial then it is now, but even then some knowledgeable people didn’t approve of it. On the other hand some very experienced individuals such as Charles Askins, Rex Applegate and William Fairbairn did, and these gentlemen all knew their way around a gunfight.

The Fitz Special was never intended to be used as a striking weapon. Those that used or advocated it (such as the ones named above) used their sidearms for the intended purpose, which was to shoot, not hit. All of them had been in gunfights, and all of them knew that ones life could hang on a fraction of a second. So if cutting out the front of the trigger guard would gain them an additional fraction they were willing to take the risk. Askins understood those risks - he so much as told me so - but it didn't matter. He had seen handguns rendered useless after the user used it for a club - which it was never intended to be, and he had no intention of making that mistake himself. In his day if someone believed in using a handgun to hit someone with they'd best arm themselves with a Colt New Service, S&W .38-44 Heavy Duty or Colt Single Action Army...

But not a Fitz Special...
 
Wow, what a memory tweak. As a kid my Father took me every other year to the NRA meetings in Washington DC. I grew up with guys like Askins, Keith, Weatherby, and many others. This thread just took me back 50 years. Unfortunately those guys are all gone and we could really use them today.

My father was given a "Fitz" Special by Fitzgerald himself, or "Fitz" as Dad called him. By Dads description "Fitz" was a character. He carried a gun in each pocket and had his cloths tailored to that purpose, even adding pockets. One of his famous lines was "If anyone ever shoots me with a .25 auto, and I find out about it I will beat him to death."

The pistol I have is almost pristine. I say almost because it does have the guard cut away in the front and the hammer bobbed. The finish is perfect. Dad said it was new and unfired when it was presented to him and as far as I can tell, it is still in that condition. I know Dad never fired it.

Dad also told me these were designed to be used just as described in this thread with one small addition. One common carry method was in the pocket of the commonly worn overcoats of the day. In that carry mode the method of fire was, put hand in pocket, grab the gun, thrust the hand forward and shoot through the pocket. The gun was never drawn. The cut out guard facilitated getting at the trigger, and the bobbed hammer avoided any hanging up on the pocket as the trigger was pulled.

Thanks for the memorys
Regards
 
Fascinating thread. Thank you, gentlemen.

Old Fuff, if you haven't already, you should write a book.
 
Old Fuff, if you haven't already, you should write a book.

It been suggested... :what: Others want to park me in front of a tape recorder... :eek: I need one of those computers where you can talk to it and it will write text... :evil: :D
 
The idea was, no obstruction in front of the trigger for a ultra-fast shot.

Of course, this is considered today to be ultra-unsafe, as a number of people have found out the hard way over the years.

Fitz intended these things to be carried in a canvas or leather lined pants pocket.
Due to the open trigger guard you really can't holster it safely, and sticking it in the waist band is really dumb.
Also, the trigger guard can bend easily on these softer pre-war guns, and the trigger can fail to return and reset.

In the Texas Ranger museum at Waco, they have a pair of Colt 1911 automatics owned by Ranger captain "Lone Wolf" Gonzales.
They're highly engraved and inlaid, and were given the Fitz treatment..... No trigger guards.

Like a lot of gun fads, the Fitz idea died off due to impracticality.
However, every time a gun magazine shows a picture of a Fitz, you can count on any type of Fitz style revolver showing up at the gun shop within a few months, as soon as the owner realizes there's no really good way to actually carry one.
Texas_Ranger_1911.jpg
 
Since this thread popped back up, I suppose I can add a little info to it. In his book 50 Years a Lawman, Clint Peoples (Texas Ranger Captain and US Marshal for Texas) describes how he came upon two bad guys. One began to pull a gun and he smacked him on top of the head with his gun, dropping him where he stood, the second refused to cooperate (may have had knife) and, Clint told him to give up, and, the guy did. According to the story, he was TRYING to shoot him but, discovered that he had bent the trigger guard on his gun and couldn't pull the trigger on the first one. Turns out the guy he hit died from the head injury.

In a more modern era, we actually teach how to use our issue weapons as an impact weapon. (We have a pretty aggressive defensive tactics instructor, I give him alot of credit) We are issued Glocks. The prefered method for using the handgun as an impact weapon is to hold it in the firing position and strike with the top of the slide. In martial arts it would be considered a "ridge hand" blow. Its a lateral swing. Is it considered a good idea to hit someone with your gun? No. Is it another tool in the tool box if you need it? Yeah.
 
According to Charles Askins, a Border Patrolman in El Paso during the late 1930's also put his 1911 out of commission by using it as a club. :eek: I don't think that John Browning intended his pistol to be used for that purpose... :D Askins (who was left handed) soon decided that he liked Colt New Service revolvers better.

During that era it was widely held that if one was determined to use his handgun to hit people with (which wasn't highly recommended) the old Colt six-shooter was the best choice for the purpose, because of its solid frame with the cylinder supported both fore and aft on a heavy center-pin. Also those with experience would hit the object of they're attention from the side, not the top of the head, to insure that a bent trigger guard wouldn't happen.

This works to a degree with revolvers, but pistols are another matter... :uhoh:
 
Actually it isn't the slide that gets bent. The blow to the slide bends the frame, and it doesn't take much to prevent the slide from going back and forth. :eek:
 
Haven't heard from Baxter007 in nearly 2.5 years on this.
Something tells me he didn't get that Colt letter confirming his Fitz. :confused:
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Check in Baxter007, and give us an update.
Thanks :)
 
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Any time the notion of the open front Trigger Bow comes up, there are always a handful of people who begin referencing "remove the Trigger Bow' as if the entire Trigger Bow were to be removed on the Revolver.


Also, people who feel the modificaiton is somehow 'unsafe' and a waste of time anyway, saying how 'dangerous' and how 'impractical' and so on, it is, or is purportedly shown to have been by how it is relatively unknown or confusing to people, now, etc.


Of course, none of these people have ever carried or used a revolver which had the modifications, and, none of them understand it.


Nor were these Modified Revolvers likely to be carried by ordinary Uniformed Policeman, unless, maybe, as a back up.

Nor were they ever touted to the Public as somehting intended for 'everyone'.

They were and remain, either a 'Special Order' item, or, a Modification done by a private person or Gunsmith, in order to arrive at the form intended.

They were carried by LEO or G-Men of the kinds who had autonomy, owned their own Arms, and wore Plain clothes, and or were carried by savvy private persons whose occupations or haunts recommended the advantages of the design.


Also, if one wore or wears Winter Gloves or Riding Gloves or Driving Gloves, unless having a large Frame Pistol, or a Colt 1878/1903 'Alaskan Model' with it's HUGE trigger Bow, the Gloved index Finger would tend to present a problem for readily accessing the Trigger of a normal small Frame or even mid Frame Revolver...as well as that a Spurr Hammer could or would catch on Clothing of carried in the Pocket.


As Olf Fuff has repeated many times now, these were 'Pocket Guns', and, not Holster Guns anyway.




Various people always imagine some sort of mis-hap occurring in holstering or Pocket-carrying a 'Fitz', because they are not understanding how difficult it would be to somehow actually DO the mis-deed they envision.

Do these people believe that Carrying a Cocked DA Revolver with a normal Trigger Bow, and a normal Spurr Hammer, in the Pocket or in a Holster, is a good way to Carry? If not, why do they always harp on how a 'Fitz', Carried in the Pocket, or any other way, could somehow just go 'off' because it lacks the front portion of the Trigger Bow and lacks a Hammer Spurr?


One would have to be a complete and utter incompetent to have the Revolver inadvertently discharge
and or to actuate a full Double-Action Cycle, TO discharge it, while Carrying or drawing or putting back into one's Pocket.


I genuinely doubt anyone can cite one example in fact, where any such mis-hap with a 'Fitz' had ever actually occurred.



We have imaginary vignettes being touted, of people mentioning things they 'imagine' which then get repeated by others as if such were an actual event being reviewed.


Given the by now likely thousands of NDs occuring with LEO or anyone else with 'Glocks', calling the 'Fitz Special' dangerous or impractical, ( particularly in the absense of even one authentic or factual or cited instance of any mis-hap having ever occurred at all, with a 'Fitz', no matter how incompetent or clueless the operative may have been, ) seems beyond absurd to me.



Any Arm requires intelligent, informed, aware, and responsible ownership and management.



If an Arm has design features which will tend to invite neglegent discharge incidents among informed and competent people, or, even among uninformed and inexperienced and ordinary people, or among poeople who have specific training for the Arm, then, somewhere in that grey zone of operator error, vis a vis design attribute which invites such operator error, there is a threshold where a design which is widely subject to operator error, is clearly is NOT for everyone...or, maybe, in some instances, not a good election for anyone.


I have never heard or read of one actual or substianted instance of any operator error occuring with any verion of a 'Fitz' style/design Revolver.
 
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