foxfirerodandgun
Member
Is a Colt AR-15 M4 w/an LE serial number prefix; heavy barrel; bayonet lug; having no LE/government restrictions stamped on the right side of the magazine well considered an H-Bar? Thanks.
Colt AR-15
- Thread starter foxfirerodandgun
- Start date
H-Bar refers to the barrel profile.
"The HBAR barrel profile is a thick-to-slightly-less-thick tapered design, thinning after the gas block. It was developed to add heat resistance and make the barrel more durable.
They’re big and heavy at the back, which helps mitigate heat up to the gas block, which has some benefits. If you live to mag dump, the HBAR makes a certain amount of sense, but the intended application is precision target shooters."
M-4 is also a specific barrel profile notably the notch forward of the sight for the M203 grenade launcher.
"The HBAR barrel profile is a thick-to-slightly-less-thick tapered design, thinning after the gas block. It was developed to add heat resistance and make the barrel more durable.
They’re big and heavy at the back, which helps mitigate heat up to the gas block, which has some benefits. If you live to mag dump, the HBAR makes a certain amount of sense, but the intended application is precision target shooters."
M-4 is also a specific barrel profile notably the notch forward of the sight for the M203 grenade launcher.
foxfirerodandgun
Member
Thanks. The Colt in question has a heavy, possibly slightly tapered barrel w/ flash suppressor, bayonet lug, and without the grenade launcher cut.
should be a 20" A2 configuration also.
foxfirerodandgun
Member
I'll check the barrel length. Would one stamped M4 also be in an A2 configuration?
Riomouse911
Member
Is there any marking on the barrel? My Colt with a 16” heavy barrel is marked HBAR on it.
(Two pictures, its a bit tough to read.)
Stay safe.
(Two pictures, its a bit tough to read.)
Stay safe.
Charlie98
Member
Honestly, I never knew there was anything but a 20" H-Bar... that 16" is interesting, besides the twist rate.
My 20" H-Bar is also marked on the barrel, but it is 1/7.
Riomouse911
Member
This Colt is from a “Match Target” marked lower from the early AWB era. My 20” AR is also an HBAR.
Stay safe.
Charlie98
Member
This Colt is from a “Match Target” marked lower from the early AWB era. My 20” AR is also an HBAR.
Stay safe.
As is my 20" (1992, I believe... just after they resumed production.) Fun fact: I strapped that rifle on the back of my Honda CB750 and rode home with it like that... back when you could do stuff like that.
Mine is a no fence, big pin, with SPORTER match hbar cal .223 rolled on the left... even though the barrel is marked 5.56mm.
Inquiring minds want to know... it's a 16" with a carbine-length gas system?
Riomouse911
Member
Yes, its all carbine.
There is so much written on mine I just took a picture
Stay safe.
Well I was today years old when I found out too lol.
CapnMac
Member
This can get esoteric.
There's "government profile" and there's HBAR, and also HBAR gov't
Military HBAR were "heavy" from the gas port forward.
Commercial Colt HBAR were "heavy" for about 2/3 the length.
There are aftermarket barrels that are "heavy" to the muzzle threading, too.
As if the water were not muddy enough, there's the "SOCOM" profile:
Colt marketed the LS6920 in several guises, The 6922 likewise (if mostly with LE rollstamps) From memory one of the 6920 series was the HBAR II, but, for the life of me, I have no idea if the barrel profile was any different.
There's "government profile" and there's HBAR, and also HBAR gov't
Military HBAR were "heavy" from the gas port forward.
Commercial Colt HBAR were "heavy" for about 2/3 the length.
There are aftermarket barrels that are "heavy" to the muzzle threading, too.
As if the water were not muddy enough, there's the "SOCOM" profile:
Colt marketed the LS6920 in several guises, The 6922 likewise (if mostly with LE rollstamps) From memory one of the 6920 series was the HBAR II, but, for the life of me, I have no idea if the barrel profile was any different.
foxfirerodandgun
Member
OK, here is the one I originally was inquiring about in my post. It has a 16" barrel, LE prefix, roll stamped 5.56 NATO with a P. What Colt model number is it? Thanks.
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Speedo66
Member
Interesting that the barrel is marked 5.56, but the receiver is marked .223.Yes, its all carbine. View attachment 1203318
There is so much written on mine I just took a picture
Stay safe.
Or are those two different guns?
Riomouse911
Member
Same gun. Sold as a unit back when these were in the throes of being banned.
I guess the .223 caliber markings may have been an end-around so it wasn’t the evil war-machine AR-15 in 5.56x45NATO. The other stuff on there calling it a competition rifle sure was.
Stay safe.
Riomouse911
Member
vanfunk
Member
An “M4 Carbine” marked lower would indicate that the gun came configured from the factory with an M4 barrel, i.e. one with the grenade launcher cut (this is assuming it was sold as a complete carbine and not just a lower). Is the barrel not marked “C MP”? I am suspicious that it doesn’t have a Colt barrel. The font looks different than Colt as well. If the barrel is not Colt, it may be that the whole upper isn’t Colt either. I’ve also never seen a factory Colt lower with “binary” marked in the third selector position; does it actually have a binary trigger? That would definitely be aftermarket AFAIK. ARs are adult Legos and can be put together easily; sometimes it’s hard to determine what’s factory and what isn’t and this one has a few flags. Either way, it’s a damn cool carbine.
wanderinwalker
Member
The lower receiver looks like the LE6920 I have sitting in my gun cabinet currently. The forge marking on the upper doesn't look like mine. I'm finding it a little odd that the barrel isn't timed for the markings to be on top; that looks like the bottom of an A2 flash-hider. Plus the barrel isn't mark C MP. Add the binary trigger and it's looking to me a bit like a Colt lower with a replacement upper. Looking again I see skinny handguards and not the fatter double-heat shield M4-handguards I'd expect. At least it looks like it's a civilian commercial lower built in the last 15 years with standard take-down pins and probably standard trigger and hammer pins (reference the binary trigger).
Then again, Colt loves to guns using whatever is available in the parts bin. Case in point: I had a stainless Colt Competition (Government Model) in .38 Super that had a blued trigger when all of the advertising copy showed the guns coming with silver triggers. And I believe the advertising copy for my blued Competition in .45 ACP showed a matching blued trigger, and my gun definitely has a silver trigger.
Then again, Colt loves to guns using whatever is available in the parts bin. Case in point: I had a stainless Colt Competition (Government Model) in .38 Super that had a blued trigger when all of the advertising copy showed the guns coming with silver triggers. And I believe the advertising copy for my blued Competition in .45 ACP showed a matching blued trigger, and my gun definitely has a silver trigger.
Charlie98
Member
That's the same as my 20" H-bar above... .223 receiver, 5.56mm barrel. That's also my guess, Rio... that they were trying to make them as un-Military as possible. At least mine doesn't have that horrible receiver block.
I saw that, too, among other things. The font is different than what Colt normally uses, too, but that may mean nothing.
I'm kind of thinking it's an aftermarket upper on the Colt lower... but, as was mentioned, that doesn't make it a bad weapon.
foxfirerodandgun
Member
I was told by the original purchaser that it was a unit purchased new. The
I was told by the original owner that it was purchased as a unit as it stands. However, I just had the Franklin Armory binary trigger unit installed & tested by my gunsmith. Where would I find the C MP roll stamp next to the 5.56 Nato? I also am curious as to what the "P" stands for, (proof mark maybe)? Thanks.
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vanfunk
Member
The “C MP” stamp, the barrel twist, and the caliber marking will all be on the same line, situated between the front sight and the flash hider. If the. “C MP” stamp isn’t there, I would not consider it to be a Colt barrel. The forge marking on the upper is unfamiliar to me too, although that’s less definitive than the barrel stamps. Personally I would not consider the whole upper to be a Colt factory unit (but I sure wouldn’t kick it out of bed). Is the person or FFL you bought it from very trustworthy? He also may have bought it from someone who represented it as all Colt, so one never knows in these situations. That binary trigger must be a hoot!
Edited to add: the “C” stands for Colt, the “M” indicates that it was magnafluxed, and the “P” is to denote that it was proofed, as you surmise.
Edited to add: the “C” stands for Colt, the “M” indicates that it was magnafluxed, and the “P” is to denote that it was proofed, as you surmise.
foxfirerodandgun
Member
Thanks. I was also told that the "C MP" meant "The “C” means chrome plated bore and chamber. The “M” and “P” mean the barrel has been magnetic particle tested…a milspec requirement." Thank you. I have removed the hand guards and inspected the entire upper for marks. I really would like to know if the upper is aftermarket, and if so, who the manufacturer is. Above the stock adjustment lever is embossed “4U486” with no other visible markings.
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foxfirerodandgun
Member
I do not know the trustworthiness of the seller. I tend to take most people at their word, ( a short coming of mine sometimes). He is a friend of a friend. Maybe the pictures that I added in another post a few minutes ago will be of help. And yes, the binary trigger is a hoot and fun to occasionally use. I have them on two other AR's. One is a Springfield LAR 9 9mm, and one on a Bushmaster Patrolman Carbine. I have another unit that I am considering installing on a Savage MSR 5.56mm. I prefer the pull/release two shots over the rapid-fire MOST of the time. But............................you know how one can surrender to temptation sometimes. ;-)
foxfirerodandgun
Member
Based on what a long-term Colt Forum member posted to my inquiry it appears that this Colt AR-15 upper is a Colt model CE2000 Expanse (budget model) which was assembled in Texas by Colt Competition Rifle in around 2016 - 2017. The lower, according to the Colt rep. I spoke with said the lower was manufactured in July, 2016. I have taken the liberty of posting his response to my inquiry on the Colt Forum below to share this information with others for informational purposes only. And I quote.
"Most Colt LE6920 M4 carbines have the small diameter notch in front of the front sight base which was used for mounting grenade launchers.
The marking “4U486” CAGE code on your stock is made by Colt's current supplier P&S, they are on current Colt production M4 stocks like my last Colt carbine that I bought in 2022.
The marking "P" only on the barrel means it had been high pressure (proof load tested) each and every barrel, except they only magnetic particle test them one in a batch (not each and every one).
Your single heat shields, narrow diameter carbine handguards and the barrel markings at the bottom of the barrel seems to me as the Colt model CE2000 Expanse (budget model) which was assembled in Texas by Colt Competition Rifle in around 2016 - 2017.
The crab logo forge marking on the upper receiver, the raw forgings was made by ULVEN Forge Portland, OR, mostly used by Colt Competition Rifle TX for the model Expanse and other Colt precision rifles.
I had an earlier Colt model Expanse CE1000 (without ejection port cover and no forward assist plunger) that I bought in 2016 but I gave it to one of my sons."
"Most Colt LE6920 M4 carbines have the small diameter notch in front of the front sight base which was used for mounting grenade launchers.
The marking “4U486” CAGE code on your stock is made by Colt's current supplier P&S, they are on current Colt production M4 stocks like my last Colt carbine that I bought in 2022.
The marking "P" only on the barrel means it had been high pressure (proof load tested) each and every barrel, except they only magnetic particle test them one in a batch (not each and every one).
Your single heat shields, narrow diameter carbine handguards and the barrel markings at the bottom of the barrel seems to me as the Colt model CE2000 Expanse (budget model) which was assembled in Texas by Colt Competition Rifle in around 2016 - 2017.
The crab logo forge marking on the upper receiver, the raw forgings was made by ULVEN Forge Portland, OR, mostly used by Colt Competition Rifle TX for the model Expanse and other Colt precision rifles.
I had an earlier Colt model Expanse CE1000 (without ejection port cover and no forward assist plunger) that I bought in 2016 but I gave it to one of my sons."
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AlexanderA
Member
As a collector, my feeling is that the Colt name on AR's stopped being particularly collectible after the early 1980's, when the original patents expired. Henceforth, everybody jumped into the AR game, and the Colt brand was just one among many. I don't believe that contemporary Colt guns will be any more valuable than other brands. But to each his own.