Colt ARs

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RepublicanMan

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Hey gang, just gotta tell someone!!!!!

Picked up a Colt Target Match Competetion HBAR today....got a great deal on it. Took it out to zero and see what kind of groups I could get at 100yds.
Best was 1.5" but I'm pretty happy with it. Also took my chicom SKS out, got 4" groups with it and learned that it shoots very high.
 
Congrats! Its hard to go wrong with a Colt. Some different types of ammo may get those groups to shrink as well.
 
Congratulations!

[I'm still torn between buying a Colt MT6600c or a Bushy XM15 (either the M4 or a E2S Shorty 16") as my next new project gun. I like the fact that the Colt has all the M4 markings, and looks more like the real thing, but I also keep reading that the Bushy is a better made rifle with a better warranty/customer service.]

Decisions... decisions. :(
 
If you find a load or brand of ammo that groups better than that please post and let me know. I have a Colt MT6601 that I bought hoping to shoot high power with last year. It has been tested with every brand of ammo made plus five or six different handloads and none of them will do better than 2" to 2.5" at 100 yards with a scope. Some of these same rounds were then fired out of a Remington 700 ADL synthetic in .223 and grouped .5" to .75" with iron sights (Williams receiver). I gave up shooting High Power last year because if the rifle wouldn't do better than 2" from a mechanical rest on a concrete shooting bench then there's no way it would work for competition.
 
Thanks....that was with Irons. I was under the impression that AR's were MOA rifles so I was hoping for 1 inch groups...call me greedy. :D

I'll eventually get around to putting a scope on it, but not before I get at least one group down to moa. I've never shot for groups with one at 100yds before but I did manage to qualify with 38-40 pretty consistently during my 12 years in the green machine.
 
If you can shoot 1.5'' groups through the iron sights, you're doing way better than anyone I've ever met.... throw the scope on there and try it out.
 
I'd go Bushmaster

if only because the non-standard pin sizes in the Colt are annoying. I also hate the screw front pin on my Colt. I always start cleaning and then have to go get the screwdriver. Other than that, it shoots great.
 
R-Man,

Congratulations on your purchase.

~1 to 2 inch groups is about the norm for most AR15s. A best group of 1.5" during your first outing with the rifle is groovy.

Try a good leather sling (if you haven't done so already) and maybe some factory loaded "match" fodder. I've had great results with the Black Hills blue box in 52gr and 75gr. Of course, loading your own would be ideal, but if you're strapped for time, the Black Hills might be the ticket.

I know it's based on personal preference, but I dig irons. Most people will advise using a scope, and if that floats your boat, then go for it. However, if your hold is good, and your position solid, optics or irons won't matter much. Oh, and there's probably something that needs to be said about trigger control and the like.

It sure sounds like your rifle's a keeper and I wouldn't mind having you blast any of my unused targets!

Jim
 
Lee F,

I just read your post.

I'm not going to get into shooting techniques or the ilk as I have a lot of improvement ahead of me, but how is your scope mounted?

You mentioned that your ar15 is scoped. Has it always worn optics?
If so, it might not be the rifle OR you. It could quite possibly be your scope, rings, mounts, etc..

However, if your results are the same with or without optics, then please disregard my inquiry.

Jim
 
MOA

RepublicanMan: Congratulations on your Colt! :) Imho, MOA is a frequently abused term among gun people. It is almost as rare as hen's teeth to see a person shoot a MOA group with iron sights; a person who could do that consistently would be among the greatest shots who ever lived.

When somebody says "my rifle shoots MOA" he generally means that;
  1. It's a bolt action
  2. It's wearing a scope
  3. Sometime in its history, a group was shot with it that measured a inch or less at a measured 100 yards.
    [/list=1]

    It's not always that the gun itself cannot mechanically produce that accuracy, although many can't, but even if the gun is MOA capable, many if not most shooters cannot shoot up to the weapon's inherent potential with iron sights.

    Of course, there are exceptions, some match service rifle shooters can produce astonishing accuracy with iron sights, but their rifles are highly tweaked and usually temperamental. The sights are optimized for target shooting and not optimal under other conditions. Usually teensie little posts and apertures.

    So, I am a bit skeptical of MOA claims by any tom, dick, or harry. YMMV :)
 
Of course, there are exceptions, some match service rifle shooters can produce astonishing accuracy with iron sights, but their rifles are highly tweaked and usually temperamental. The sights are optimized for target shooting and not optimal under other conditions. Usually teensie little posts and apertures.

So, I am a bit skeptical of MOA claims by any tom, dick, or harry. YMMV
Click to expand...

Here's an accuracy claim from a Nate then!

My AR, an Armalite match rifle, will shoot MOA or better with ease. The reason most groups hover around 1.5-MOA (off of a bench) is sitting at the keyboard. ;) It is not heavily tweaked in any way, shape or form. Other than a good barrel, a nicely tuned trigger, slightly thinner front blade and a slightly smaller rear aperture (although I'm not positive it is smaller than the aperture on my dad's old Colt) it is an AR. Note that any AR can wear a good barrel and have a tuned trigger. Sights aren't really such a huge deal IME.

BTW, the rifle also has a free-float tube, but I don't think that it really affects how the rifle performs off of a bench. It's for position shooting. :)
 
Ha ha Nate:
The reason most groups hover around 1.5-MOA (off of a bench) is sitting at the keyboard. :)
Click to expand...
I can also say that most groups of MOA or under are shot at the keyboard. ;)

Your gun sounds like a fairly modified AR15 type to me. Not many free float tubes on normal guns nor fine front posts and small apertures. You are probably that one shot in a thousand. :)
 
So of course I just had to take it back out again today.......warmer weather, still no wind, and 2 inch groups today. :(

Still using XM193.........maybe I should try some black hills or something.
Oh well, 1 inch, 5 inches, doesn't matter so long as it's somewhere near the middle of the target right? :D
 
RepublicanMan,

You're using XM193? This wouldn't happen to be the Federal/Lake City stuff that seems to have flodded the market?

If so, I haven't had spectacular results with it either. Then again, it isn't match ammo.

Jim
 
Yup, that's the stuff.....comes in a brown cardboard box.
Looks an awful lot like what we were issued at the ranges and at the sandbox when I was in the Army except it isn't on stripper clips.
 
RepublicanMan,

Congratulations on your new AR! I know you've been looking for a while, glad to see Santa took care of you a little early this year.

Find yourself a box or two of some match-grade, and run that through. Bet you group much better when the ammo's more consistent.

UPDATED TO ADD:

1.5 to 2-inch groups at 100 with ball ammo and iron sights is pretty decent shooting, from where I sit...
 
Last edited:
RepublicanMan

I would like to jump in here to add my $0.02 to the excelent points already mentioned.

I broke in my Armalite National Match with UMC (Remington) because it was recomended in the instruction manual. My initial shots at 100 yards with iron sites were 2 or more inches apart even though I was at a bench without bags and trying my hardest to be steady. I took my last 3 shots right before the range closed, not concentrate excessively on the shots, just wanting to fire them before the range closed. I laid my rifle down to check the target with the spotting scope and only saw one hole. I went to retrieve my target, thinking that two shots missed. When I saw the target I was shocked, two holes touching with the third 0.125" away. A dime easily covered the three shots. I have not been able to shoot that small of a group since then, but did manage to get some 0.5 to 0.75" groups with my reloads.

Just take the gun out and shoot for fun and your groups will start getting smaller.

FWIW For a new shooter, I do not think brand of ammunition makes much differance at 100 and 200 yards.
 
Your gun sounds like a fairly modified AR15 type to me. Not many free float tubes on normal guns nor fine front posts and small apertures. You are probably that one shot in a thousand.
Click to expand...

As I said, the free-float tube really only makes a difference in position shooting with a tight sling. (My biggest complaint with a stock AR is the fact that sling tension pulls your zero-off.) Off of a bench, without the sling tension, it makes no difference. And the front sight post really isn't a fine sight post, it's actually larger than the front-site blade on an 03A3 Springfield (which is also capable of 1-1.5MOA without undue effort).

But most ARs I've seen will hold 1-2MOA with ball ammunition. 1.5MOA is probably average.

FWIW, I'm speaking in terms of 5-shot groups.
 
I'm not familiar with Colt's but I would imagine that a 'Match Target Competition' model has the SAMMI spec chamber on it, no? If so I'm not sure it's a good idea to shoot mil-spec loads (Federal XM193, Winchester Q3131A, or IMI M193) thru it. I think I read on ar15.com that the higher pressures created by these loads may not be safe to shoot out of a SAMMI chambered rifle. Check out the ammo FAQ here www.ammo-oracle.com The second question addresses this issue. Lots of good ammo info in this document in any case. Better safe than sorry!

Shabo
 
I'm no expert on post ban Colts but the later prebans are marked on the bbl 5.56 NATO.

My earlier prebans are marked .223 and fire M193 just fine.
 
I'm not sure which chamber the Colts have (I would guess 5.56), but the barrels are not chrome lined... Which may add a small bit of accuracy off a bench.
 
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