Colt Barrel Alignment
- Thread starter rodwha
- Start date
- Status
Malachi Leviticus Blue
Member
It should be set up so that the barrel alignment is perfect when the wedge is at full depth. Most replicas don't come that way though, but that's what you want to do.
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
The wedge is supposed to hold two assemblies together under tension. The arbor is supposed to bottom out in the arbor hole and that is what determines the clearance between the barrel and the cylinder. The barrel lug and frame meet and two alignment pins locate the barrel rotationally. With this setup, the revolver will be the same revolver every time you disassemble/reassemble it.
The wedge is not a "gap setting device". It should be tapped in and tapped out (per Colts instructions). If you tap it in and it binds the cylinder, your arbor is too short.
To make it even simpler, if your revolver has the letters UBERTI on it, your arbor is too short.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
The wedge is not a "gap setting device". It should be tapped in and tapped out (per Colts instructions). If you tap it in and it binds the cylinder, your arbor is too short.
To make it even simpler, if your revolver has the letters UBERTI on it, your arbor is too short.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Crawdad1
Member
Get the Dragoon, Third Model specifically, lot more fun then putting the rammer back in place after every shot.
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Thanks Denster.
These open tops are very nice shooters and by far the best looking revolvers ever made. I particularly like the Dragoon series but all can be setup to perform flawlessly and keep perfect time and even fan if that's your fancy!!
With the arbor situation taken care of, true tack driving, full power loads are capable and repeatable!
To take it a step further, a locking device where the frame and barrel lug meet is available (called a lug lock). This makes the open top act as a true solid frame revolver with the open top pointability!! The lug lock is also something a competition shooter would want.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
These open tops are very nice shooters and by far the best looking revolvers ever made. I particularly like the Dragoon series but all can be setup to perform flawlessly and keep perfect time and even fan if that's your fancy!!
With the arbor situation taken care of, true tack driving, full power loads are capable and repeatable!
To take it a step further, a locking device where the frame and barrel lug meet is available (called a lug lock). This makes the open top act as a true solid frame revolver with the open top pointability!! The lug lock is also something a competition shooter would want.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
expat_alaska
Member
Lug Lock
Mike I have been following you in these varied forums for a couple of years now. Your mention here of a Lug Lock is the first I have heard of it.
Can you point me in the right direction?
Jim
Mike I have been following you in these varied forums for a couple of years now. Your mention here of a Lug Lock is the first I have heard of it.
Can you point me in the right direction?
Jim
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Hey Expat!!
Thanks and I'd be glad to!
It's still in the early stage but, the area in question is a butt joint and I know that vibrations will tend to make this area "slap" each other. So, to keep that from happening, I've developed a "lug lock" system that will lock this joint together and make it act as a solid frame. This gives two points that secure the assemblies together instead of just the wedge.
A reverse tapered arbor (if you will) is mounted in the barrel lug and enters a hole in the frame (big end first) and a knurled knob or a set screw is tightened against it. This holds the joint solidly together as designed.
I should have it on my website soon.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Thanks and I'd be glad to!
It's still in the early stage but, the area in question is a butt joint and I know that vibrations will tend to make this area "slap" each other. So, to keep that from happening, I've developed a "lug lock" system that will lock this joint together and make it act as a solid frame. This gives two points that secure the assemblies together instead of just the wedge.
A reverse tapered arbor (if you will) is mounted in the barrel lug and enters a hole in the frame (big end first) and a knurled knob or a set screw is tightened against it. This holds the joint solidly together as designed.
I should have it on my website soon.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Wow Denis! I did not catch that!!!!
Hmmmmmm . . . .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Hmmmmmm . . . .
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Panzerschwein
member
Yeah, Denster. Care to talk about that?
45 Dragoon is an upstanding guy, and does great work for a great price. He is well liked here FOR A REASON.
45 Dragoon is an upstanding guy, and does great work for a great price. He is well liked here FOR A REASON.
Oh yes that is me. I've had disagreements with 45 Dragoon before but when he is right I agree with him. When he is wrong I don't.
I wrote on Amazon my opinion of your article that I purchased and responded to your diatribe. Anyone that is interested can read it there.
If you want to make an issue start a new thread because, unlike you, I don't hijack some one else's thread.
I wrote on Amazon my opinion of your article that I purchased and responded to your diatribe. Anyone that is interested can read it there.
If you want to make an issue start a new thread because, unlike you, I don't hijack some one else's thread.
I know that's not what the wedge is for, but it's what people find happens with Uberti models (haven't seen it with a Pietta or other). So that got me wondering how people keep the POI the same or if they do.
I've read a little about the work Mike has been doing, and have figured it likely worth while, especially with a Walker that would be treated like a Walker.
I used to drool over the 2nd Model Dragoon (like the squared trigger guard) but really like the history of the Walker, both for the TX Rangers, but also for Colt. That gun is why we have Colts.
I've read a little about the work Mike has been doing, and have figured it likely worth while, especially with a Walker that would be treated like a Walker.
I used to drool over the 2nd Model Dragoon (like the squared trigger guard) but really like the history of the Walker, both for the TX Rangers, but also for Colt. That gun is why we have Colts.
PainlessWolf
Member
Good evening,
In the interest of the thread, I would like to note that Mike redid my Uberti Walker and yes, now it can be fanned and it no longer eats caps. The revolver is as smooth as can be. Worth every penny. He has my 1860 Army, doing the same work to it and I have no doubt that the gun will come back, again, as smooth as can be. The Walker had the same issue as the O.P. was talking about. The wedge was being used to set the gap because the arbor was too short. He does what he says and knows what he is talking about.
regards all,
In the interest of the thread, I would like to note that Mike redid my Uberti Walker and yes, now it can be fanned and it no longer eats caps. The revolver is as smooth as can be. Worth every penny. He has my 1860 Army, doing the same work to it and I have no doubt that the gun will come back, again, as smooth as can be. The Walker had the same issue as the O.P. was talking about. The wedge was being used to set the gap because the arbor was too short. He does what he says and knows what he is talking about.
regards all,
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Guys, I appreciate you speaking up for me. Sorry, but I don't always realize who is commenting. I can't remember all of the "problems" Denster had but I do know one was this very arbor issue. " A solution for a non-existent problem " I believe it was! Well, I'm glad to see he's come to his senses and I guess he'll go back and set things right?!
As much as has been posted on this subject alone is sufficient enough to realize something is amiss in the arbor Dept.
Rodwha, you are correct about the Pietta not having the problem for the last several years. They seemed to have listened and stepped up to the plate and "fixed" the problem. Piettas are definitely easier to get to my .002"-.0025" barrel/cylinder clearance. I will say the action parts have a ways to go though. They are often too soft and still look as if they were from the '70s (like Uberti's and everyone else's did then!). Uberti's on the other hand, have excellent action parts and seem to have much better heat treating procedures. That's probably where most of the cost difference is between the two. The old saying about getting what you pay for still applies today.
Gary, thanks!!
I can't say it's my idea per se, but I remember seeing something like it a looooooong time ago. I didn't necessarily know then why or what it was for but when thinking about the vibrations and harmonics that these revolvers endure, it occurred to me that this butt joint was not "locked" and had to allow a break in the transmission because of it. Probably not to a large extent but at least to some degree.
Then I was thinking about HOW you would lock it together and at some point I remembered the "knob". It must screw down on something!! Then it all made sense! It had to be an arbor or pin. So, I did just that and with a " fat end first" tappered pin going into the frame (so it's mounted in the barrel lug between the alignment holes), once the screw is tight against the pin, it can't move or pull out. It would be trying to let the "fatter" part squeeze by and that just ain't gonna happen!! So far all reports seem to support my thoughts on this addition. I'll try and keep everyone posted as to the effectiveness of it
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Wow! Thanks Painless!!! (I'm a slow typer!!)
As much as has been posted on this subject alone is sufficient enough to realize something is amiss in the arbor Dept.
Rodwha, you are correct about the Pietta not having the problem for the last several years. They seemed to have listened and stepped up to the plate and "fixed" the problem. Piettas are definitely easier to get to my .002"-.0025" barrel/cylinder clearance. I will say the action parts have a ways to go though. They are often too soft and still look as if they were from the '70s (like Uberti's and everyone else's did then!). Uberti's on the other hand, have excellent action parts and seem to have much better heat treating procedures. That's probably where most of the cost difference is between the two. The old saying about getting what you pay for still applies today.
Gary, thanks!!
I can't say it's my idea per se, but I remember seeing something like it a looooooong time ago. I didn't necessarily know then why or what it was for but when thinking about the vibrations and harmonics that these revolvers endure, it occurred to me that this butt joint was not "locked" and had to allow a break in the transmission because of it. Probably not to a large extent but at least to some degree.
Then I was thinking about HOW you would lock it together and at some point I remembered the "knob". It must screw down on something!! Then it all made sense! It had to be an arbor or pin. So, I did just that and with a " fat end first" tappered pin going into the frame (so it's mounted in the barrel lug between the alignment holes), once the screw is tight against the pin, it can't move or pull out. It would be trying to let the "fatter" part squeeze by and that just ain't gonna happen!! So far all reports seem to support my thoughts on this addition. I'll try and keep everyone posted as to the effectiveness of it
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Wow! Thanks Painless!!! (I'm a slow typer!!)
Last edited:
Rodwa,
The older Armi San Marco Colts have a short arbor. I use a folded over sheet of copy (.0035" X 2) paper or a piece of card stock paper of .007" as a feeler gauge to set the cylinder gap as I tap the wedges in. That way they hold the same POA. Some day I'll correct the arbor length but I've just gotten used to it and it works for me, albeit a crudity. (I can just see 45Dragoon cringing right now. He is correct however)
The older Armi San Marco Colts have a short arbor. I use a folded over sheet of copy (.0035" X 2) paper or a piece of card stock paper of .007" as a feeler gauge to set the cylinder gap as I tap the wedges in. That way they hold the same POA. Some day I'll correct the arbor length but I've just gotten used to it and it works for me, albeit a crudity. (I can just see 45Dragoon cringing right now. He is correct however)
Denster,
I have no interest in hi-jacking this thread, but I will say that it's something of a dual-personality issue when you accuse Mike of cheating me there, and act completely differently with him here.
You implied I didn't know when I was being cheated, that Mike took advantage of my "lack of knowledge" in charging me for work not needed, said what he does is mostly OK but over-priced, and stated that his arbor work offered a solution to a non-existent problem.
And you were very condescending in telling me not too feel too bad, because I wasn't the first guy who got took by a dis-honest gunsmith.
How many faces do you have?
At least two, obviously.
I offered no diatribe on Amazon, I merely corrected several of your erroneous assumptions & statements, after which you disappeared there & appeared here.
And, with that said, I'm done with you.
Thought Mike should know who he's dealing with on this forum, and what you said about him elsewhere. And as I also said elsewhere- he puts his name out there publicly & stands behind his work, while you remain...whatever a Denster is.
Back to regular programming.
Denis
I have no interest in hi-jacking this thread, but I will say that it's something of a dual-personality issue when you accuse Mike of cheating me there, and act completely differently with him here.
You implied I didn't know when I was being cheated, that Mike took advantage of my "lack of knowledge" in charging me for work not needed, said what he does is mostly OK but over-priced, and stated that his arbor work offered a solution to a non-existent problem.
And you were very condescending in telling me not too feel too bad, because I wasn't the first guy who got took by a dis-honest gunsmith.
How many faces do you have?
At least two, obviously.
I offered no diatribe on Amazon, I merely corrected several of your erroneous assumptions & statements, after which you disappeared there & appeared here.
And, with that said, I'm done with you.
Thought Mike should know who he's dealing with on this forum, and what you said about him elsewhere. And as I also said elsewhere- he puts his name out there publicly & stands behind his work, while you remain...whatever a Denster is.
Back to regular programming.
Denis
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
LOL !!!
Hellgate, you are OK with me!! I've read your stuff a long time. Thanks!!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Dang!! Denis thanks again for the kind words!!(still a slow typer!!)
Hellgate, you are OK with me!! I've read your stuff a long time. Thanks!!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Dang!! Denis thanks again for the kind words!!(still a slow typer!!)
Last edited:
Well Dragoon and Pris I'll try to keep it to the original post. I agreed that the wedge has one purpose that is to hold the two assemblies together. One of the problems I have with Dragoon, that we debated in an earlier thread, is his placing a set screw in the end of both Pietta and Uberti arbors erasing the taper in the end of the arbor that is there to mate with the wedge. Dragoon even denied photographic evidence that it is there, stating he checked six new Uberti and Pietta revolver arbors and they were cut straight across. This is the cure for a non existent problem I referred to.
Pris I noted how you spun my words from Amazon. You might be better served by learning how single actions work.
Pris I noted how you spun my words from Amazon. You might be better served by learning how single actions work.
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Haven't seen any apologies from the one on here that sets himself up to be an "Authority" on the subject of open tops and their design.
He does have the ability to say he agrees with me when I'm right but not when I'm wrong. Wow (that takes balls!)! But on this very issue, after ripping me and Denis in a review of Denis's article, he's got the Cojones to pipe up here and agree . . . now . . . that it's a problem and can be fixed!!!
What really takes balls is to man up and retract the review but you need a spine too so . . . . I doubt anything or any apologies will be forthcoming.
At least you fine folks here at now know how some will use these forums to become "all knowing" and then go sling mud elsewhere!!
Amazing.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
He does have the ability to say he agrees with me when I'm right but not when I'm wrong. Wow (that takes balls!)! But on this very issue, after ripping me and Denis in a review of Denis's article, he's got the Cojones to pipe up here and agree . . . now . . . that it's a problem and can be fixed!!!
What really takes balls is to man up and retract the review but you need a spine too so . . . . I doubt anything or any apologies will be forthcoming.
At least you fine folks here at now know how some will use these forums to become "all knowing" and then go sling mud elsewhere!!
Amazing.
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Last edited:
45 Dragoon
Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2013
- Messages
- 2,778
Wow! Timing is everything! (Referring to the posts immediately above)
All this because he can't understand a single point, as in the Piettas, is all you need for WEDGE contact with the arbor. Pietta cuts the slot from both sides leaving a fairly small contact patch for the wedge. Uberti cuts a hopefully matching slant.
Here is the real kicker!!!! The original open tops , were cut square (meaning no slant, no small patch in the middle)!!!! I've been documenting the differences from our copies of today with an unaltered, unmolested, original parts 1860 that was made in 1862.
So, your wrong anyway Denster. (So I'm right as far as my original shows so . . . . I guess you agree with me? )
Sheesh!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
All this because he can't understand a single point, as in the Piettas, is all you need for WEDGE contact with the arbor. Pietta cuts the slot from both sides leaving a fairly small contact patch for the wedge. Uberti cuts a hopefully matching slant.
Here is the real kicker!!!! The original open tops , were cut square (meaning no slant, no small patch in the middle)!!!! I've been documenting the differences from our copies of today with an unaltered, unmolested, original parts 1860 that was made in 1862.
So, your wrong anyway Denster. (So I'm right as far as my original shows so . . . . I guess you agree with me? )
Sheesh!
Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Last edited:
Dragoon. You are right no apologies and no retractions. I note from your rant that you have now discovered that both Uberti and Pietta have tapers machined into the end of the arbors. In our previous debate you stated that you examined six new Pietta and Uberti revolvers and they were all cut straight across. You must have obtained new glasses. As to your pristine 1860 not having a taper. It should have you might want to check the patent drawings for Colt's revolvers or search out a few more originals to check.
- Status
