Colt Factory Letter 1911...

[Bama Drifter]

I've used the search function and come up empty. What kind of value bump do I get from having the Factory Letter on a pre-war commercial Gov't Model? My gun was produced April 27, 1925 and part of 5 gun shipment to Chicago hardware store: Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Co. This store originated the "True Value" line of tools and had "Cruso" as a house brand for single shot rifles, etc.

Anyway, back to Colt. On a bone stock Gov't Model that has excellent original finish, what bump will I realize by now having the Colt Factory Letter?

Thanks for any and all input!

 

[Ron James]

Some one correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you will be lucky to get the cost of the letter back. Now if the letter showed that it was a one gun shipment to Tom Mix or such, then that is a different ball park.

 

[Bama Drifter]

Thanks Ron, I suppose it will just verify that the gun wasn't originally nickel! Oh well. Neat to have & I'll keep it in a sheet protector w/ other docs in my safe.

 

[Jim K]

As Ron says, unless the shipment was to some well known personage, the letter adds about $50 to the value, if that. Its main value is to show that the gun is today as it was when shipped (or show it was altered).

Jim

 

[Ibmikey]

The letter in my opinion enhances the mystique surrounding my Colt SAA (1903), well worn, 32-20 that came from a Texas barn. I care little about resale value on any of my firearms and therefore shoot all with great delight.

 

[bannockburn]

I got a factory letter for a Combat Commander that was part of a limited run customized by Colt's Custom Shop. Don't think it adds any extra value to the gun; I was just curious as to the particulars like when it was built and how many they customized this way.

 

[Fishbed77]

Just curious - how much do these letters cost?

 

[Ron James]

I believe a Colt standard factory letter is a hundred dollars.

 

[tipoc]

Because you have it you will get that money back at the time of sale providing the piece is in good condition. Because you spent the money and time to get it you know more. Particularly on an older gun it makes sense.

tipoc

 

[Bama Drifter]

I believe a Colt standard factory letter is a hundred dollars.

Yep, $100 and 3-4 months turnaround time. Thanks Tipoc and others for your reassurance.
My hope was that this pistol was ordered by the Siamese gov't or something close to that as it has VERY unique old Thai characters running down the front strap below trigger guard. I made a rubbing of it w/ pencil and had it translated by the staff at my favorite Thai restaurant. Translated it reads "Bangkok 178242". In my wishful thinking, this gun was purchased by the old Siamese military. As they've long been a US ally, I see no problem w/ them buying Colt arms, even from a Chicago hardware store. After all, 1925 was before the NFA or any major impediments had been legislated, right?

For a letter, call the extension listed in below link for full info:
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/ArchiveServices.aspx

 

[tipoc]

Now we need pics of the gun.

tipoc

 

[CaptTripps]

Yes, you've piqued my interest.

 

[Bama Drifter]

Here she is...

OK:

 

[Bama Drifter]

and here:

okey doke

 

[Jim K]

Whoa, where did that Thai marking come from? I don't think HSB had a True Value store in Bangkok.

Jim

 

[Bama Drifter]

In my wishful thinking, this gun was purchased by the old Siamese military. As they've long been a US ally, I see no problem w/ them buying Colt arms, even from a Chicago hardware store. After all, 1925 was before the NFA or any major impediments had been legislated, right?

As I said, maybe an emissary or official from Siam bought it (and several more) while visiting Chicago back in the 20s. Any other guesses? My Colt Letter only proves it left the factory in blued, stock configuration...

 

[tipoc]

Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett & Co. was a hardware store but also a authorized Colt dealer back in those days. They sold guns. It would not have been out of the question for your gun to have begun there but ended up in "Siam". Possibly in police or military service. No more unusual than a man buying a piece in Florida and it ending up in Seattle or Vancouver B.C.

Colt also sent many guns to the Philipines and to Asia in general. Both 38 Super and 45acp were popular in the Philippines and elsewhere in the Pacific rim.

In the 1930s, 1802 1911's in 38 Super were sent to Thailand (Siam) for use by the Thai Navy. Their markings ran down the front strap of the gun as do yours.

You can find out more about them in Doug Sheldon's book on the 38 Super. Pictures are included as well.

Are there any other markings on the piece? Under the stocks? On the frame when the slide is off?

I'd keep poking around with this. Ask about what folks know about 1911's and Siam. A Colt letter may tell you more.

I'd take a few more clear and focused pics (pics of the whole gun are needed) and reach out to folks here:

http://www.coltforum.com/index.php

And ask Sam Lisker, send him an E mail, here:

http://www.coltautos.com/default.asp

tipoc

 

[Bama Drifter]

Great tips Tipoc, many thanks. I've perused Sam Lisker's site many times and didn't think to ask him directly. The provenance on my gun is just what the letter says... 5 gun shipment to Chicago in 1925. I happened upon the piece in Tulsa at a favorable price and decided to add it to my stable of Pony Guns. Anyway, as I spent considerable time in China, and have visited Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand, I don't plan to part w/ this one. It is in my "permanent collection" so to speak.

FWIW, I also used this gun in a 8 hour defensive pistol course, shooting over 300rds thru it with nary a malfunction! The instructors referred to me as "the guy with Audie Murphy equipment." A fellow could ask for worse

 

[Jim K]

HSB was not just a hardware store, they were a major hardware distributor for many years and as noted above, originated the True Value trade name for hardware products; they later took that name for the business. Their "territory" was much of the midwest and west, which is why so many Colts (and other guns) will letter to them. Except for curiosity, of course, a record of a shipment to HSB means nothing in terms of gun value; in all but rare circumstances, Colt shipped to distributors, not individual hardware or gun shops and not to individuals. They did, however, ship to law enforcement officers directly (as was allowed even after the passage of the FFA in 1938), and it is those shipments that have proven interesting to collectors.

Jim

 

[Lone Star]

I'm interested that this 1925 gun has the A-1 improvements. Wondered when those kicked in on commercial guns. I saw a 1927 example, but not one as early as this presumed 1925 Thai piece.

 

[tipoc]

I'm interested that this 1925 gun has the A-1 improvements. Wondered when those kicked in on commercial guns.

I thought that's a good question so I looked it up.

It was Feb. 18, 1924.

On June 12, 1923 Colt was awarded the contract to produce 10,000 guns with the improvements the military wanted, short trigger, arched msh, etc. Colt also wanted to make a few changes which brought the military guns more in line with the Commercial guns.

The first of the commercial pistols which began the new changes was around serial number C138000. The first guns Colt ledgers classify as "New Style" were C138533 to C138522.

This is according to Charles Clawson in his book "Colt .45 Government Models (Commercial Series) Second Edition" page 53.

tipoc

 

[Bama Drifter]

1925 transition model

While mine shows ALL the characteristics of a true 1911A1, it's date of mfg would place it squarely in the "Transition Model" category. Yet another reason I don't think I'll ever sell it! In fact, I just ordered some ivories from Jim @ Nutmeg Sports w/ gold Colt Medallions to go on it for a while. Though it won't look "correct" it will look awesome

Several guns from '24 have shown a mix of 1911 and A1 features w/out being totally one or the other. What Tipoc relayed is the same info I found in my Goddard book. Clawson is just more readily available, IIRC.

 

[Lone Star]

Tipoc-

Thanks for that info. Much appreciated.