Colt is selling out!

[bannockburn]

Old Fuff

Thanks for the auction information. Some very interesting history up for sale here. I remember seeing a photo of Item Number 51, the Colt Single Action Army, caliber .45, 7 1/2 " barrel, serial number 1. On page 117 of the 1951 Fifth Edition of The Gun Digest, this gun was pictured, along with the inscription that it was from the collection of John S. du Mont. Looking at the provenance provided by the auction firm, du Mont acquired it from Fred Mills in exchange for a Colt double rifle, in 1948. What is really amazing is that Mills had purchased the gun in 1925 for the princely sum of $4.00! Now some 84 years later, it sells for $750,000. This is better than the Antiques Roadshow!

 

[Old Fuff]

What is really amazing is that Mills had purchased the gun in 1925 for the princely sum of $4.00! Now some 84 years later, it sells for $750,000. This is better than the Antiques Roadshow!

Yes, (sniff) but at $750,000 it didn't come up the the auction house estimate of $500,000 to $1,000,000. We live in hard times... (sob!)

 

[Big Bill]

Dang - this makes me sick! I can't even look!!!

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I heard a story in my local gunshop years ago about Colt owing about $250K to Eugine Stoner. Colt could not pay him as they were either bankrupt or in receivership. Anyway, as I recall, one of their ceo's told him they couldn't pay him and sugguested that he go down in the basement and take whatever he wanted. I saw pictures (Poloraid) of Mr. Stoner with some of the guns he took in liew of payment. He had just about every (maybe all) prototypes/variants of the ar15, m16. God only knows what else he walked away with as Colt could have cared less. As the story goes Colt gave him a number of "shopping carts" to put whatever weapons he wanted into. Stoner could have walked away with anything he wanted (that's what I was told) as the ceo wasn't "into" guns and probably didn't have a clue as to their historic/collector value.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well this is for my ol' buddy Hawk.

They just sold a nickel plated, 3" Python - valued at $1,200 to $1,500... for $6,000!

But it did come with a factory letter..

 

[trbon8r]

I got shut out. Deals were scarce, with the big money bidders prevailing. I guess to them it's no big deal if they pay 25 to 50 percent over market value.

Not only that, I was disappointed in the condition of some of the display guns once I really started looking close at the pictures. So many of them seemed awful beat up, and neglected looking. I understand the test mules being beat up, but the display guns, some of which had rust on them?!?!

I had a great time though, and will take it for what it was, which was a chance to see some rare prototypes that will likely never see the light of day again.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well they are buying one-of-a-kind guns from the Colt factory collection, and that adds considerably to their value. But consider this:

***Colt Experimental and Test Government Model MK IV Series '70 Semi-Automatic Pistol, with Factory Letter

Serial no. 70G58898. .45ACP caliber, 5-inch barrel, slide and barrel breech markings include "MK IV Series '70." Blued finish, the varnished walnut grips with nickel-finish rampant colt logo medallion inlays. Metal rimmed tag attached to triggerguard states "10,000 rnd endurance gun Drop-tested." On other side, "Do Not Shoot Hammer Modified."
Condition: Very good to fine. Handling marks, scratches, moderate wear. 95% blue. Bright bore. Grips fine.
Notes: Retained by factory as experimental and test pistol. This modern firearm cannot be purchased by California residents who do not possess a Federal Firearms License.
Provenance: Colt Factory Archives Firearms Collection.
Estimate: 600 - 850

In the end it went for $500 - Not cheap, but as quality 1911 pistols go, not too shabby.

I didn't get anything either, except for a lot of knowledge - and that's what I expected to get. I know a lot more coming out then I did going in.

 

[Colt Smith]

The terms about swiping pics did come up when I was registering to be a bidder. Didn't actually bid on anything I wanted. I didn't have the pockets to compete with the other bidders. I thought that Python prototype (swiped pics below ) was real nice. I wish they had produced that gun as was. Some other yummy stuff too but a lot of pretty common stuff too. Fun to see all that rare stuff. Thanks again Old Fuff.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Yeah, this wasn't an eBay or Gunbroker auction. This was the real deal. No sniping, no hand wringing over last minute bids. It's likely that most prequalified bidders had a catalog and opportunity to examine the weapons before auction. So, they knew what they wanted beforehand, and the auction moved along nicely.
This was an auction for the big leaguers.

I like your idea about resale, Fuff. I hope that's what happens.

I thought the #1 SAA went cheap, as did the last Hartford Colt at 150k.

 

[GUNKWAZY]

I thought that Python prototype (swiped pics below ) was real nice. I wish they had produced that gun as was. Fun to see all that rare stuff. Thanks again Old Fuff.

FYI: It's now owned and operated by GUNKWAZY


Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

 

[Hawk]

Well this is for my ol' buddy Hawk.

They just sold a nickel plated, 3" Python - valued at $1,200 to $1,500... for $6,000!

3" Python folks are a breed apart.

I was looking for the infamous .41 Mag Python. If it was there I missed it.

The whole thing seemed to have a melancholy backdrop - can't be good that the family heirlooms are getting auctioned off.

 

[Old Fuff]

Jeff (GUNKWAZY):

Got a question. Were you aware of of the auction before I started the thread on Saturday, January 17th, or did you find out about it on The High Road?

I'm delighted to know that you did get the Python prototype.

 

[GUNKWAZY]

Yes, I was watching and checking the catalog for about a week and was very happy nobody was talking about it.
I almost fell out of my chair when i saw your post the day before.

I got the Python number 3 as you already know.

I actually was lucky enough to pick up the Snub nosed experimental prototype Python 38 special that led to the Diamondback. That was my Number one pick of the auction.

And, I actually bought several other protos as well.
To say the least, I'm EXCITED

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)

 

[Old Fuff]

I was looking for the infamous .41 Mag Python. If it was there I missed it.

Despite rumors, a .41 Magnum never existed. Smith & Wesson deliberately designed the cartridge to have a .410” bullet so that the round would be too fat to fit in any revolver Colt was building at that time. Colt on the other hand was working on an updated .41 Long Colt that would have used a .401” bullet, around specifications advocated by Bill Jordan and “Skeeter” Skelton. A prototype revolver for that cartridge was included in the auction, but it wasn’t a Python.

There is justice in the world. If S&W had stayed with the .401” bullet they could have chambered the cartridge in a later L-frame. Undoubtedly this would have proven to be more popular with both law enforcement and other users then the .41 Magnum that required an N-frame. Colt on the other hand, missed a real opportunity when they didn’t bring out their version of a .40 caliber cartridge. :banghead:

 

[Old Fuff]

I almost fell out of my chair when i saw your post the day before.

Well if a friend hadn't given me a telephone call this thread would have never happened, and the last thing I was thinking about was Python prototypes. I'm glad things worked out.

 

[krs]

Old Fuff, You need not worry over your having spread the news to the detriment of anyone. Quit with self recrimination.

I've been a registered and qualified bidder in most of the proxybid auctions for well over a year and I'm sure that many thousands of other people are as well. They send out notices of upcoming events to all of their registered users who check the box indicating a desire to receive them.

Also, word of this one was spread far and wide amongst the forums that are more collecting oriented than The High Road.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, You need not worry over your having spread the news to the detriment of anyone. Quit with self recrimination.

Gee, I never thought about it in that context. To me it was so important that our members and others who follow The High Road know what was about to happen that I would have posted the news regardless. The thought that I might undercut some bidders never came to mind.

My focus, then and now, was the incredible resource that this could provide Colt researchers and other interested parties. Generally these sorts of factory collections are closely held with access being restricted to inside personal. Now part of Colt’s collection was going to be laid out for public viewing, and the usually well-informed Old Fuff didn’t have a clue.

I also consider it unfortunate and short-sighted on they’re part, that Colt didn’t first let an experienced researcher, inside or outside of the company, author a research book so that the insights the collection offered wouldn’t be limited to an auction catalog and a one-time event. It is sad when individuals outside of the company seem to have more interest and concerned about its past history then those who own and run it.

 

[krs]

OK, sorry. I took it from your posting that you WERE concerned over someone feeling that by posting you'd spoiled their chances somehow.

I agree that it was a lost opportunity to enrich the scope of knowledge about the company history and activities.

I was fascinated to see the two examples of a collaberative effort to come with a target pistol to be marketed under the Colt logo but manufactured in China by Norinco. I think I would have bought one of those except that it sounded as though they might not work. The descriptions contained wording like "mechanism incomplete or needs adjustment".

 

[rswartsell]

I was surprised at some of the prices, some were almost what I would call reasonable. Especially considering the provenance.

Smith and Wesson definitely seems to have more of an eye toward preservation of history, because of Mr. Jinks?

 

[Dr.Rob]

That coil spring New Service went for only $650???? That was one of the coolest items, not to mention the Vektor looking 1903 improved prototype.

 

[Old Fuff]

Smith and Wesson definitely seems to have more of an eye toward preservation of history, because of Mr. Jinks?

Smith & Wesson has the benefit of having an exceptional man combined with astute management.

 

[Old Fuff]

The descriptions contained wording like "mechanism incomplete or needs adjustment".

This is not too unusual in a prototype or a concept sample that's submitted to illustrate a proposal. If interest is shown, something better will be constructed. But anyway I was also taken aback by the previously unknown China connection.

 

[Old Fuff]

That coil spring New Service went for only $650????

That's one piece I would have liked to examine. It's not hard to understand how the coil mainspring would have worked, but I'd like to know what they did about tensioning the rebound lever.

 

[rswartsell]

Smith & Wesson has the benefit of having an exceptional man combined with astute management.

That is indeed sad as Colt has (had?) at least as much to contribute to the historical record.

 

[GUNKWAZY]

Quote:
That coil spring New Service went for only $650????

That's one piece I would have liked to examine. It's not hard to understand how the coil mainspring would have worked, but I'd like to know what they did about tensioning the rebound lever.

Are you guys talking about the experimental semi-auto 22 revolver ?

If that's what you're talking about, I bought that as well.

I'll get you guys some nice pictures when it finally arrives.

Jeff (GUNKWAZY)