Colt Police Positive Special vs Official Police?

[slick6]

For some reason, I have been finding several different Colt revolvers, that entice me! I'm trying to narrow the field-so, I have some specific questions, pertaining to a late 1960's Police Positive Special(Blued)versus a late 1960's Official Police(Blued)revolver, as follows:

1)Is the Police Positive Special, considered to be as much of a "Budjet" revolver, as Colt had intended the Official Police revolver to be?

2)Was the quality of the Police Positive Special, any better than it was for the Official Police revolver(Or, was it the same or less?)?

3)Since it has been said that, in view of the large number of Official Police revolvers being produced over the years(And, because of it being a "Budjet" Colt revolver!)that this is the reason, that this revolver, is not considered to be very collectible! Now, how does the Police Positive Special, stack-up against the Official Police revolver, in terms of the numbers actually produced, and, in terms of being collectible?

4)The finish on both of these NIB condition Colt revolvers, is mint new looking-however, the Police Positive, has a much higher quality looking finish(Brighter and shinier and more deluxe looking!)!

5)The price on both of these two Colt revolvers are about the same at $400(What I can get them for!)so, which of these would be the best bet, to buy, not only to keep-but, to hold as a collectible revolver?

 

[Old Fuff]

First of all, neither revolver was considered to be “budjet†models. Both were top-quality service guns with fixed sights. The Official Police was heavier and intended to be a uniformed officer’s sidearm. Incidentally, it used the same basic frame and lockwork as today’s Python. The Police Positive Special was identical to the better known Detective Special except it had a longer barrel (4 through 6 inches). It was more popular with individuals that carried their hardware concealed for whatever reason.

Both were made in large numbers, but because they were primarily police service guns most that turn up are well used and far from “like new.†As a general rule the quality of bluing was the same, depending on the particular era they were made. Guns made before and shortly after World War Two are better finished then later production when higher labor costs played a part.

Right now double-action/hand ejector Colts are not particularly strong as a collector’s item, but they’re popularity is growing. This is particularly true with mint/boxed guns. I would say that $400.00 is near the top end in today’s market, but if they are truly “like new†and boxed I would expect the value would increase over time. One of these days someone will write a reference book about them, as it is unlikely that any more will be made, and collectors will be off and running. Both models were extremely popular with law enforcement officers from the early 1900’s through about 1970. They represent a collectors’ field that’s waiting to be discovered. Consider them to be a long rather then short-term investment.

 

[slick6]

Well, although both the Official Police and the Police Positive Special are in NIB condition, only the Police Positive Special, is complete with the box and papers! Both of these guns, have the older style(Unshrouded ejector rod)!

Without knowing for sure, I had assumed that maybe the Police Positive Special might be considered to be more popular than the Official Police revolver(Therefore, more "Collectible"!)? I guess that I thought this, because of the Police Positive Special, being the "D" frame, like the extremely popular, Colt Diamondback(And, Detective Special)? And, although I knew that the Official Police is based on the same frame as the older Officer's Model(Target)revolvers and the Python, I thought that many people might not make this "Link" so easily(Especially, with the Python!)?

If I was just going to buy one of these revolvers just to shoot, I'd probably pick the Official Police? However, I have never shot either of these two different Colt's(So, it would depend on which one of these had the best feeling action, on the average?)!

 

[Old Fuff]

Frankly, if you intend to shoot them I wouldn't pay the asking price for a new-in-box collectable. Instead, buy a slightly used and unboxed gun for about half the cost.

Looking at it from a collector perspective, having the papers and accessories (if any) would be a positive plus. Also, by the 1960's the Police Positive Special's popularity had dropped off so guns from this period are fewer then in earlier years. Both of these Colts featured forged frames and lockwork parts, "real steel" rather then current cast or molded substitutes, and lots of skilled hand fittting. If Colt was to duplicate this today I suspect the MSRP would be around $900.00 or more (!) Slow but sure people are starting to notice this. In their day (about 1910 through perhaps the early 1960's) they were highly regarded. I happen to favor the Police Positive Special as it makes a relative light "packing gun." However the Official Police is interesting in its own right. Since it is your choice you make the pick. I don't think you would go wrong either way.

Edited to add: Post the partial serial numbers (use "xx" for the last two numbers) and I can probably date the exact year they were made.

 

[Majic]

A collector doesn't care what the future price may be. What he/she collects are what is pleasing to his/her eye. They are in the game of collecting because they love what they collect, not what it may cost.
You sound like you have more of an investors attitude by wanting to know if something will be collectable and more expensive in the future. If you want to know which revolver will rise in status faster than the other then your crystal ball works just as well as everyone's elses.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don’t know that it’s reprehensible to collect with an eye on future value. Many top collectors I know “collect with a purpose†and ultimately the accumulated total is worth more then the value of the individual pieces. I suppose that someone that simply bought guns in which they had no interest might be classified as speculators rather then collectors. That said, there is no reason to not make choices with projected worth in mind. Nowhere is it written that someone can’t enjoy a collection while making money at the same time.

 

[slick6]

Old Fuff:

My goals are exactly as you had previously, stated! I'm collecting guns, because I like them! However, it does make me feel better, if the guns that I collect would have a good projected value? Although it may have sounded like it, I'm not buying guns just as an investor(To get rid of for a quick profit!)however, if I get a nice collectible gun(That I like!)this becomes a "Brighter" picture(In knowing that the future "Marketability" will be good!)! I also, just use this information(On values!)as a rough guide to determine which of the guns I'm considering to own, are more desireable than the others? But, I will never just buy a gun only because it is the most valuable(As I would still buy only the guns that I like the most(Regardless of value!)but, I consider having this knowledge to be very helpful to me!

 

[Cosmoline]

Prices on these guys seem to be climbing as I watch. I remember first encountering a Police Positive Special (2nd Gen) at a pawn shop for under $200 in near-mint condition just two years back. Now I can't find them in that shape for under $300, and the price is climbing. Beyond that I'm not a collector so I can't speak to value issues.

But I have owned and used both in several variations and offer these observations:

--The internal workings on both are quite ornate, hand-fitted and complex. Unlike Smiths they don't always get better with age. I've run across many OP's and PPS's with trigger pulls that have grown odd and uneven over the years. I suspect these are usually not serious problems, but I always take a pass on the Colts with funky triggers.

--The accuracy is phenomenal. Colts were top-of-the-line, esp. before WWII, and were considered superior to Smiths by many. Back before Colt started cutting corners, they would pay very careful attention to detail. As a result, the OP's and PPS's I've had have been without doubt the best-shooting .38 specials I've ever owned. My old "Spenard Special" PPS with pimp grips would shoot quarter-size groups at 20 yards even in my hands.

--The OP's are stronger than the PPS's, but the PPS is often unfairly dismissed as a weak platform.

 

[Old Fuff]

Many years ago I had a friend that was a dealer, but a most unusual one. When someone came to him and said, “I want to buy a gun for house protection,†he would ask, “are you going to shoot it very much?†If the answer was “no†he would give his customer a choice. He could buy an ordinary .38 Special revolver for (the then) price of about $85.00, or he could buy used but near-mint 1911 .45 automatic he had in stock for about $95.00. This of course was in the good ol’ days back in the early 1960’s. In both cases the gun sat loaded in a bedside drawer waiting in case a bad guy came around. Over the years this happened to only one of his many customers.

Fast forward to 2005. Lets say that both the .38 revolver and .45 pistol owners decide to sell their guns. Over the years both have provided the protection they were purchased for in the first place. But where the revolver owner may get around $250.00 to $400.00 for his like new revolver the pistol owner could get as much as $2,000.00 or more. That isn’t a bad return on his original investment. Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it. You do of course have to read some tealeaves, but the ground rules aren’t difficult.

1. The piece should be one made by a famous maker with a good reputation, and the model should be one with a popular following.

2. The piece should be of the highest quality. Junk is junk any way you cut it.

3. The piece should be in the best condition possible. “Like new†may not always be obtainable, but if it isn’t the gun must have something special about it to justify its lesser condition.

4. The more original accessories that come with it the better, and handguns should have their original grips and sights – unless the replacements are collector’s items in they’re own right.

 

[Old Fuff]

I have bought (“stolen†might be a better word) many fine older Colts with “funky trigger pulls†for ridiculously low prices because the seller couldn’t find a buyer (besides me). After removing the grips I would submerge the revolver in a degreasing solvent for a day or so, and then take it apart and clean and lubricate it. After that it worked fine. The cylinder bolt spring is a tiny little coil kind, and when it gets full of gunk it can’t compress like it should. At this point the action gets … well … funky. I dearly love to find guns in that condition.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I have bought (“stolen†might be a better word) many fine older Colts with “funky trigger pulls†for ridiculously low prices because the seller couldn’t find a buyer (besides me).

Ding, dang, darn it all to heck and back, man! You weren't supposed to tell!

 

[Old Fuff]

Oh gee ....

I'm sorry ...

I didn't know that you were stealing too ...

 

[sm]

I was helping - honest.

" You know a polymer pistol with a higher rd count is what you really need ...they don't have them funky triggers, can't bugger the grips screws, less concerns on the finish ...how much you want for that old thang ?

Hey...just helping a guy get what he wants a bit sooner is all

 

[Old Fuff]

VERY GOOD ...!!

I must remember that line ...

Ah ..... I mean suggestion...

 

[Cosmoline]

You should not have told me that, Old Fluff

 

[Old Fuff]

Cosmoline:

You is way too young and inocent to be learning these kinds of ... well ... ah .. adult things. Maybe in 20 or 30 years. Meanwhile you should let your ... ah ... elders take care of these worthless old guns, while you are out looking at them new plastic kind ...

 

[sm]

" Ya know that old Colt is just plain backwards, I mean the thumb latch goes the wrong way, the cylinder goes the wrong way...NOW lookie here, this here gun is new, even made from metal with the ium on the suffix...comes with a key for a safety...even has a purty genuine plastic box..."

How much longer am I on this "Probationary Reprobate" status anyway...? Is my Certificate in the mail yet?

 

[Old Fuff]

sm:

I am proud of you boy. I am going to promote you to Grasshopper 1st. Class.

 

[sm]

Thank you Sir!

 

[orgdp]

Message to OLD FLUFF

Wondering when an OP serial number 861232 was made?

 

[Old Fuff]

Wondering when an OP serial number 861232 was made?

Late 1957. They started at 861,300 in 1958. Those are good years before quality hand-fitting dropped off.

 

[Mak Maven]

1 old Fuff to another old fuff.
Can you help me?
I have an OP with 6 inch barrel Back strap marked property of Richmond P.D.
S/N 6113 **
Bought it used (obviously) 1965. Hardly shoot it anymore.
Thin bluing and excellent bore.No rust.

What would be the value??
And on what board would you recommend me posting it for sale

Thank you
David in Fla.

 

[Old Fuff]

A fine finish won't make it shoot any better...

Fine workmanship will...

It was made in 1937

Given the condition the revolver is probably worth about $200.00 or a bit less, however the police department marking would add to the value so far as some collectors are concerned, so I'd say all things considered about $230 to $250. If you want to sell it over the internet I'd suggest you start here. The listing is free.

 

[Mak Maven]

Thank you much.
I appreciate your time posting a response to me.

David

 

[cyanide]

Those were some well made guns

if you think they even come close to making them like that today

guess again

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h30/mavenman/IMG_0304.jpg