Colt police positive

[Jerry11826]

My Dad has given me an old 4" Colt Police Positive revolver. The serial number is 1472XX It was reportedly given to him by a friend that had gotten it from a retired Little Rock, Arkansas police officer. The revolver show extensive holster ware on the barrel and cylinder. However, there is no pitting, the bore and cylinders are bright and shiney and the action / lock up is perfect. The pistol shoots extremely well. I think it was one of those guns that was carried a lot and shot very little.

Want to try it as my carry gun. I know of a good gun smith that can "bob" the hammer and cut and recrown the barrel just longer than the ejector rod.

My question is how do I get a new front sight - it appears the original front sight was soddered on. Can it just be removed and replaced on the shortened barrel?

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[SaxonPig]

If you really want a snub revolver then buy one. Cutting down a larger gun will cost more and be less satisfactory in the long run not to mention ruining the monetary value on a Colt and the Colts get more valuable by the day.

Is this a Police Positive or a Police Positive Special? The PP is smaller and is in 32 and 38 Colt calibers while the PPS is longer in the frame and cylinder to accommodate the longer 38 Special cartridge. Many people call the PPS a PP for some reason but they are really different guns. If not a 38 Special I would not recommend it for self-protection because factory ammo in the smaller calibers is too ineffective for defensive use.

The PPS is a pretty compact revolver as is and even with a 4" barrel it would be an easy to conceal piece. If you want to pack this gun give it a try as it is before cutting it up.

BTW- The serial you gave would make a Police Positive from 1923 and a Police Positive Special from 1918. IMO a gun this old is not trustworthy with high performance ammo. I would restrict a revolver of this vintage to "plinking loads" since the cylinder isn't likely to even be tempered.

Bottom line is that this gun doesn't sound suitable to stake your life on. It's a keepsake not a carry piece. Go shopping for a personal defense pistol and leave this one in retirement.

 

[krs]

SaxonPig has given Excellent advise, and is correct in all details about the revolvers in question.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Police Positive Special was built on the same frame as the well-known Detective Special, and the only meaningful difference was that the PPS usually had a longer 4, 5 or 6 inch barrel. When the PPS is carried in an inside-waistband holster the exposed part of the revolver is the same as the Detective Special, and relatively easy to conceal. If however, you have to use it the PPS is a more effective weapon.

The Police Positive had a slightly smaller frame and cylinder, and came in .22 rimfire, .32 S&W Long or .38 S&W. Unlike many others I have staked my neck on the latter two cartridges in both S&W and Colt revolvers.

If you really want a shorter barrel, keep in mind that a 2" Detective Special barrel can be fitted to either a PP or PPS frame, after which the front sight issue becomes moot.

If I was personally faced with this question I'd obtain a IWB holster and carry it as it is for a time, and then consider what to do about the barrel. If you bob off the hammer spur it's a good idea to to remove the single-action notch on the hammer at the same time.

 

[Jerry11826]

SaxonPig

It is hard to read the markings on the barrel - there is a large "P" and then on the top line is "olice". The second line has "ositive". To the side of those two lines is "38 Special". The revolver will shoot the 38 special. I have fired about 150 rounds of 38 special - 150 gr. Lee round nose bullet on top of 3.0 grs. BE. Seems not to be a problem. The revolver is very accurate at 25 yards.

Still want to go thru with the project - I have several "J" frame Smiths and a Taurus 731.

Thought the old revolver might make the perfect carry gun here in Florida where the usual uniform for an old retired fart, "like me", is a "T" shirt, shorts and "flip flops". I like the thought of 6 shots comapred to five.

I am not a great fan of "super powerful" handguns. I don't want to kill my attacker - but merely take him / her out of the fight . Several of my friends says I am crazy - one of them carries a "hot" 357 Mag load with a 125 Gr. JHP. I don't thing he realizes what is going to happen if he "let that thing go" in say a shopping mall. It is going to penetrate the attacker, go thru the next one or two persons in the line of fire and then "knock a dent" what ever finally stops the bullet.

Any ideas on a front sight would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[PRM]

Depending on who does the project - you could have more in it than a factory snub will cost you. Even a 4 inch in that frame is not a hard CC. In the long run I think you will regret it.

 

[Old Fuff]

If your revolver is chambered in .38 Special it has to be a Police Positive Special. The Police Positive cylinder is too short to accept the "special" cartridge.

Concerning the front sight: After the barrel is shortened a gunsmith can silver solder a new sight that has a ramp base. For examples of various sights go to (www.e-gunparts.com)

Or look at the front sight on a Ruger Blackhawk. It is much too big for what you have in mind, but you'll get the idea.

... where the usual uniform for an old retired fart, "like me", is a "T" shirt, shorts and "flip flops".

I have carried a 4" PPS in an outfit like you describe.

 

[SaxonPig]

As OF stated, if it's a 38 Special it must be the PPS.

Your gun and your choice. I would swap the barrel rather than cut the original if I was absolutely determined to perform this unwise conversion. If you are adamant about cutting the original barrel then give it to a gunsmith and he will know how to do it.

 

[Beagle-zebub]

I don't thing he realizes what is going to happen if he "let that thing go" in say a shopping mall. It is going to penetrate the attacker, go thru the next one or two persons in the line of fire and then "knock a dent" what ever finally stops the bullet.

Well, clearly your friend intends to flank his line of attackers into an enfilade position and take them out with one choice shot.

 

[XavierBreath]

I agree that cutting down the barrel on this revolver rather than purchasing a newer one is folly. A decent used S&W J frame revolver can be had for $300. A gunsmith will charge you half that to "ruin" your Police Positive. The loss in market value will make up the other half.

If you want to do it though, others have before, even way back then. Here is what it might look like when finished.

 

[Jerry11826]

Xavier,

That is exactly what I want - Mine is not as nice as yours - most all the blue is worn off the barrel and cylinder.

Don't think it would be worth very much, but it shoots great. Hate to just throw it in the safe - why not give it some use.

I also will get the hammer bobbed so I hopefully will be able to just slide it in my pants pocket.

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[XavierBreath]

Jerry,

I'll be honest with you man....... Chances are, I might be inclined to make it into a snubby too! In fact, if the pistol's finish had all but disappeared and it was basically a beater type gun, I might be inclined to trim the barrel down, reinstall the original sight, bob the hammer and Fitz it. Then I would reblue it, put on some reproduction grips and give them a bit of a time worn look with some steel wool. Finally, I would wrap them with some rubber tape. Turn it into a copy of a modified vintage carry gun.

The pistol might not be the ideal carry gun, but it's going to be 100 years before it takes on the value that the weathered old SAA Colts have. We will never see that time. It's your gun. Enjoy it and make yourself part of it's history.

Let the stones fly my way........

 

[dfariswheel]

With all the above said:

There are two methods of reworking the front sight.

Since the sight is brazed in place, simply have the gunsmith heat the cut-off section with the sight to a red heat, pull the old sight out of it's groove and re-use it.

Second method is to just make a new sight, which is simple and since you can make it higher, you can file it down to sight it in.

To install the sight on the shortened barrel, have a shallow groove milled in the barrel, and have the gunsmith use silver braze to re-set the sight.
Note that real silver braze is sometimes called silver "solder".
This is a high temp braze that melts at around 1100 degrees and will destroy the old finish on the barrel.

DO NOT use the silver "bearing" SOFT solder people mistake for silver braze.
This is a soft solder with about 3% silver added to prevent tarnishing.
This melts around 500 degrees or so.
It usually WILL NOT hold a revolver sight on.

 

[SaxonPig]

Jerry- If the thought of killing a criminal attacker bothers you then don't carry a gun because there is a good chance that's will happen if you shoot him and if you are not clearly OK with that in your mind beforehand you could hesitate when it's time to shoot.

He will not...

 

[Jerry11826]

Xavier - dfariswheel - SaxonPig

Xavier - Thanks for the help - Among your recommendations was a "FITZ" job - I don't know that term - Could you tell me what you mean?

dfariswheel - Thanks a lot for the info - I will give it to the guy that I think will be doing the work - It will probably anger him, but at least he will know what I want.

SaxonPig - you are right - I would hate to kill anyone , but especially an innocent by stander - Many of my friends and I do mean friends seem obsessed with "blowing the target away" - as I said I just want to take him / her out of the fight long enough to give me time to run - well at my age trot rapidly away.

Thanks to all that responded!

Jerry

 

[XavierBreath]

A "Fitz Job" entails cutting away the forward portion of the triggerguard to allow easier access to the trigger.

Popular on carry revolvers of the thirties, I wouldn't recommend it on a gun carried today. It's a period modification.

 

[fireflyfather]

Good lord, please don't do that to that poor colt!

I inherited my grandfather's police positive (1970's), think it was the last year they were made. Beautiful gun. The newer ones were fine to handle the .38-44 loads originally (lawyers got involved later). For a gun that old, though, you wouldn't want to put ANY +p ammo through it. Not exactly ideal for a carry piece. If you want a detective special, why not buy one? They can be had for a decent price. If you consider what the gun you have now would fetch on the market, plus the cost of modifications, it wouldn't be much more, if any. Then someone else could enjoy an unmodified police positive, and you could have the detective special, that you seem to want.

I don't generally care if people want to bubba their guns, but there's a heap of difference between a mosin and a period colt.

 

[Jerry11826]

fireflyfather

I appreciate what you are saying - but I don't think you understand the condition of this revolver. It is as Xavier said a "beater gun". Almost all of the finish has worn off the barrel, cylinder and top strap. The grips are chipped. If I put it on a table at a gun show I would be surprised to get $75.00.

However, I think it is mechanically perfect - The cylinder - when the trigger is back all the way - locks up absolutely. It will not moved. I think it was one of those revolvers that has been carried a lot, but seldom fired.

It shoots unbeliveably. All in the 9, 10 & X rings at 25 yards off sand bags on the NRA pistol target. Probably better if it had better sights. No telling how great it would group in a Ransom rest.

It is a great shooter!

My Dad also gave me a very nice Mdl. 36 - "J" frame Smith. It looks new - unmarked - pin barrel - a beautiful piece - Now it would be a shame to start carrying that pistol. It is so nice to look at and is probably worth $300 - $400.00 or more - it is pristine.

If I don't cut the barrel off - then I can't shoot it in my club's "Concealed Carry Match" nor can I really carry it very easily. I would have no use for it. It would spend the rest of my life in the safe.

It is too good a shooter for that - hope you can understand.

Thanks for your input -

Jerry

 

[fireflyfather]

I do understand that the finish it trashed, but reblueing is an option, though not for your purposes.

You might be surprised what a colt would be worth to a knowledgeable buyer. In any case, don't cut the barrel. Put a new barrel on it and have it done by a competent gunsmith. If you do convert it, it need not be a bubba job.

 

[Jerry11826]

OK! You guys win - Where can I find the barrel?

Jerry

 

[Claude Clay]

+1 new bbl
as to where to get one....the tooth-fairy has friends; i'll as her to network for you.

 

[krs]

I have an old 3" S&W K frame barrel marked .38 Special. did Colt and S&W use the same thread?

If the thread's the same all I need is a hacksaw, a dremel, and some rubber tape. (Rubber tape?)

 

[Beagle-zebub]

Oy, please don't mention "Colt" and "hacksaw" in the same sentence.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have a Colt New Service, made in 1906. This gun was re-blued and the markings almost polished out. It had a front sight about as thick as a razor blade and a rear notch to match. It shot about 18" high and about a foot to the left.

I ruthlessly soldered on a big thick 1/8" thick slab of steel, carefully shot and filed until I got elevation right, then opened up the rear sight notch to the right until it matched the new front sight and also shot to point of aim.

I'm not sorry I did it.

 

[Jerry11826]

This is not a joke!

KRS - I assume your post was in "jest". I am quite serious about this project.

From the lack of responses I assume that no one on this forum knows where to find a "Detective Special" barrel for this gun. This is despite the posts that plead not to cut the barrel - It appears the only solution is to cut the barrel.

Saturday, I will take the gun to the gunsmith and get an idea of the cost to cut the barrel, recrown same, mount the original front sight and "bob" the hammer.

Will post the cost - and if less than $200.00 will probable go thru with the project. May even ask how much it would cost to reblue the gun. If not excessive - will have that done!

Thanks to all that responded!

Jerry