Colt rumor?

[joed]

The local gunshop has more Colt AR's then I've seen in a long time. They told me Colt lost the military contract so they will be flooding the market. Anyone know if this is true?

The way they're selling it's probably good news to anyone looking for an AR.

 

[wriggly]

Might be something to it. I was in my LGS just a few days ago, and was surprised to see they had a bunch of the 6920 MOE's and a clerk said they had just gotten a few 6920 LEO models as well. That was more than they had in the last few years.

 

[TurtlePhish]

Sounds sketchy. The military's Colts have an auto sear hole drilled as part of the mfg process, so unless that's a step after the rest of the receiver is done, I fail to see how the military contract guns could end up being sold to civilians. I don't think the sear hole is done after the receiver is finished, as it would be cheaper to do at the same time the selector hole and trigger and hammer pin holes are drilled, all done before milling out the fcg area.

 

[wriggly]

I am sure that what you have pointed out is true regarding the way they are built. But I fail to see how that would relate to them ramping up civilian production in the absence of production of military guns. When a contract is made, it is just that, a contract. The numbers of the contract would have to be fulfilled and all military parts to fulfill that contract would be used to complete the contract.

The timing could not be any better for us civilians. We all know that Colt is tops for making correct spec AR's, and if they have no military contracts to fulfill, they will likely reduce prices to compete with the other makers.

 

[joed]

No idea but i now have Colt 6920 that i bought today.

 

[Armed012002]

If a certain someone wins a certain election, I suspect there won't be many in stock.

 

[proven]

where did your shop get thier info? i'm inclined to call BS. as for civi colts, they don't need to lower the price, they're already not only competitive, but the best deal going.

 

[TurtlePhish]

I am sure that what you have pointed out is true regarding the way they are built. But I fail to see how that would relate to them ramping up civilian production in the absence of production of military guns. When a contract is made, it is just that, a contract. The numbers of the contract would have to be fulfilled and all military parts to fulfill that contract would be used to complete the contract.

Noted and understood. However, wasn't the military contract with Colt indefinite quantity? Unless the military took all the extras that were already in the process of being made when the contract was lost, then they would have to go somewhere.

 

[highpower]

It has been my understanding that the US military contract has been with FN for quite a while now. They have a plant in South Carolina making them to meet the made in USA provision in the contract.

 

[newfalguy101]

last I heard, FN was making the military M-16's and Colt was only supplying M-4's.................course thats been a while back...

 

[crracer_712]

They advertise the Colts as being made to the same standards as the military models. To me that says they are not the same thing, nor are they probably made in the same place.

 

[joed]

The only thing I do know about the Colts is they did come down in price. When I looked locally I couldn't touch what I wanted for under $1300. Yesterday I bought exactly what I wanted for $1109 which is about $200 less.

 

[henschman]

That is pure rumor, and there is no truth to it.

The military production rifles that Colt makes, which are the M-4 carbines, have a 14.5" barrel and select fire lower. They COULD be sold to the public, if they put their uppers on semi auto lower receivers and permanently attached a longer than mil-spec flash hider to make the barrels over 16"... however, Colt does not even sell a civilian rifle in this configuration. All theirs are in the typical civilian configuration of a 16" barrel, carbine-length gas system, and a removable flash hider.

So you can rest assured that when you buy a 16" barreled AR, it is not in any way a "canceled government contract rifle," and anyone trying to sell it to you as one is either blowing smoke up your @$$, or mindlessly repeating a rumor without verifying it.

 

[JustinJ]

If a certain someone wins a certain election, I suspect there won't be many in stock.

Do you mean the certain someone who actually signed a state AWB that currently prohibits 6920s in said state?

 

[Creature]

They advertise the Colts as being made to the same standards as the military models. To me that says they are not the same thing, nor are they probably made in the same place.

Might the fact that the military model is selective fire have anything to do with Colt's marketing claim???

 

[wriggly]

Back in 2004, I owned a Mustang Mach1, and was a member of a Mach1 forum. At the time, I was the plant manager of a manufacturing facility that provided parts to various automakers, Ford being one of them.

A member of upper management from Ford told me at a meeting that they were in the process of negotiating to purchase the rights to the "Boss 302" name, and I posted the rumor that Ford intended to some day, bring a New Boss 302 Mustang to the market. It led to a bunch of folks on the Mach1 forum calling BS and eventually the mods kicked me off the forum for defending my story.

The mods insisted I was full of C@$p because they claimed Larry Shinoda's family would never part with the rights to the name.......um, last I heard, Ford has a new Boss 302 Mustang, using the same name and graphics from the sixties.

Point is, if Colt isnt making M4's for the military, they will be converting their production to supply the civillian market, and to capitalize on the furor and paranoia in the black rifle market that is so prevalant these days.

They have begun making other iterations of old models that fell by the wayside in years past as well.

I would not be so quick to dispell rumors such as the OP posted. All indicators at the retail level would indicate that more product is coming out of Colt's factory, and that is good for us. Look for even more new models in the coming months ahead.

 

[TurtlePhish]

You think this means that the military finally decided on a replacement for the M4?

 

[Slamfire]

I don't know the current procurement on M4's. Colt had a monopoly producing M4’s for a very long time but that became scandalous. When that period ended Colt had to give up the TDP to the Army.

In the past, Colt has lost virtually all competitive bids on M16 service rifles.

There are still Colt fan boys when it comes to AR’s, they will pay a premium for the Pony, but considering how competitive the AR market is, Colt is over a barrel. The hugely profitable military contracts have come, or are coming to an end. Colt walked away from the civilian market and their product line is greatly reduced from the 80’s. Colt used to be a major producer of double action revolvers, that line is gone. They still make the Colt SAA for the Colt fan boys, and the M1911. But the M1911 market is extremely competitive, and Colt has always been behind the times in responding to market demand.

Maybe they will sell their brand to the Chinese and we will soon be flooded with Chinese made, but Colt branded firearms. Colt sold their trademark for knives, cheap Chinese made Colt branded knives are easy to find.

 

[JustinJ]

Assuming this is true, which i doubt, i would be concerned about what it would mean for Colt's quality. I prefer Colt because there is a government inspector at their facility ensuring all guns are made to specifications unlike all other AR makers for which we must simply take their word for the most part.

For every one internet rumor that turned out to be true there are a million that didn't.

 

[joed]

I have no idea if the rumor is true, what I do know is the number of M4's in the gun stores around here have gone up considerably.

When I first started looking for an AR I didn't want a Colt, actually wanted an Armalite. But when you start comparing the same features the non Colt guns come within $50 of what a Colt cost. At least it did in my case. And I know one thing, if it has the pony on it resale is generally higher.

 

[Ken70]

Turtlephish said;

"Sounds sketchy. The military's Colts have an auto sear hole drilled as part of the mfg process, so unless that's a step after the rest of the receiver is done, I fail to see how the military contract guns could end up being sold to civilians. I don't think the sear hole is done after the receiver is finished, as it would be cheaper to do at the same time the selector hole and trigger and hammer pin holes are drilled, all done before milling out the fcg area."

They won't be selling the FA receivers to the general public. Those will go into the govt warehouse for spare parts. That is if there any over the contract amount.

We'll get the ones without the extra hole; just remove the drill that makes the FA hole and the sensing probe that goes into the hole after it's drilled; or not. The probe tells the machine to shut down if the hole is not there.

 

[moxie]

Don't anyone go getting all excited about government inspectors being in plants making sure things are built to spec. Doesn't work that way. And even if it did why would someone place blind trust in the competency of feds? How fast can you say GSA? How fast can you say Secret Service?

 

[DPris]

Old news on the military contract.

Colt "civilian" ARs are built in the same plant & get parts common to both out of the same parts bins.
That means such things as the "full ring" military bolt carrier group.
Semi-autos obviously differ in a couple areas, but the "same standards" comment applies to the overall same standards between civilian and military/LE versions.
The civilian guns don't get lesser-grade parts.

Colt is not diverting military guns to the civilian market.
They simply now have the time to address the civilian market & currently offer more model variations through non-LE channels than they have in many years.

They're selling formerly military & LE configurations (NOT FULL AUTO) through the Colt's Manufacturing side that were previously only available through the Colt Defense side.
All are, incidentally, made by Colt Defense. Colt's Manufacturing buys from Colt Defense & sells through their own "civilian" channels.

I saw more AR variants at the Colt SHOT Show booth this year than ever.
Denis

 

[Destructo6]

Pretty cool article regarding Colt's sole-sourcing of the M16 and M4 Carbine, which ended in July of 2009:

As of July 1/09, the sole source clause of the “M4 Addendum” expired, allowing the Army to second source production of the M4/M4A1 carbines and their unique parts. Under the terms of the licensing agreement, however, the M4 TDP remains Colt proprietary data. Those terms also state that the US Army would have to pay 5% in royalties to Colt, for every M4/M4A1 carbine and/or their unique parts procured from second sources, for another 26 years – through Dec 24/37.

from:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Colt-M4-Data-Rights-The-Individual-Carbine-Competition-06942/

On a CNC machine, it would be comically easy to "turn off" the portion of the program that drills the auto sear hole.

I'm guessing that the rumor is largely true and good for us. Regardless, it's good to see more, and more "evil", Colt's on gunshop shelves.

 

[JustinJ]

Don't anyone go getting all excited about government inspectors being in plants making sure things are built to spec. Doesn't work that way. And even if it did why would someone place blind trust in the competency of feds? How fast can you say GSA? How fast can you say Secret Service?

Actually, that's exactly how it works. There is a DOD contractor who has the full time job of ensuring compliance. In regards to competency your examples are apples and oranges. Not to mention that i trust an independent inspector far more than the claims of a for-profit company given how many ARs we've all seen marketed as mil-spec which were far from it.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/colt-m4a1/