Comfort...or....comfort?

[Storz]

An odd question I know...

I am going to be taking the CCW class soon and have narrowed my choice down to either the Kel-Tec PF9 or the Taurus Millenium Pro in 9mm

Spent some time up at the gun shop today handling both, the Taurus definitely fits my hand better, but it is quite a bit larger than the Kel-Tec.

So what should I focus more on, comfort while carrying, or comfort while shooting?? My gut instinct tells me to get the smaller Kel-Tec because it will be more comfortable to wear, meaning I am more likely to wear it. Then on the flip side of the argument the Taurus fits my hand better, and the larger size is just something I'll have to learn to deal with while carrying....

Thoughts?

 

[dtown240]

I'm of the opinion that it's better to use a pistol that you're going to train with, and the slightly larger frame is going to be more comfortable to do so. I recently tried a PF11 because I wanted to see how a compact pistol would fair (My normal carry is a Beretta 92FS). With the long double action only, and the small frame my thumb knuckle was getting beaten up pretty badly on one of the corners of the frame after 100 rounds. At that point, I realized it might be small and easy to carry, but I'll never shoot this thing often enough to become proficient with it. It might've torn me up a bit, but I think that was one range rental that was worth it's weight in gold. As always, YOUR mileage may vary, as we all have different comfort zones and physical dimensions.

If possible, run 100 round through your choices and THEN decide which would be the better for YOU. Pay special attention to reliability, comfort, and recoil. Don't shoot one, tire yourself out and then try the other. That would give the 2nd one a bad shake. Alternate one magazine from this one, then one magazine from the other.

At the end of this exercise, I'm sure that your selection will be MUCH easier.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Comfort while carrying is important but if a gun isn't comfortable to shoot you probably won't shoot it much. You MUST practice regularly or a handgun is useless to you.

If you are a new shooter then you really don't want to learn how to shoot with a very small pistol. A small pistol or revolver is harder to shoot well than one with a slightly longer sight picture. Recoil is felt more too with a very small handgun.

As a side note, I've heard a lot of bad things about the Kel-Tec PF9. I'm guessing that's because it's a fairly new pistol and there are still a few bugs in the design. On the other hand, the Taurus PT-111 Pro is a proven handgun that's reliable. My son has one and it's really not that big and carries and conceals well. It's also not hard to shoot and follow up shots are not hard to handle. It too is a small pistol but not as small as the Ket-Tec.

If you can try to shoot both before you decide which to buy.
Good luck with your class and in choosing your carry pistol.
Welcome to the forum...

 

[BikerRN]

I try to carry a "Duty Size" weapon as a CCW whenever possible.

There are times when I can't carry the full size gun, though infrequent for me. I shoot the full size guns better, so that's what I carry. Clint Smith said, "A gun should be comforting, not necessarily comfortable." I agree with that sentiment.

My concession to a smaller gun is a 3" 6 shot .357 Magnum. It's easier to carry than a 4" N-Frame Revolver but still allows me to take advantage of some of the .357 Magnum's "ability" that the shorter barrels don't. In short, for me it carries like a snubbie but shoots like a 4" Duty Gun.

After two "Armed Encounters" I decided that while it may not be easy to carry a full size gun, I want every advantage I can get when I am in the most stress enducing time of my life. I want that life to be longer so I go by the motto, "Friends don't let friends carry mouseguns." Yes, I own a couple of "mouseguns" and they are my BUGS. Yes, I carry reloads and a BUG daily as well when I'm not working on duty.

Biker

 

[loop]

Just to be argumentative, because I like to be argumentative.
You are going to carry the gun a lot more than you are going to shoot it. If carrying it becomes problematic, too bulky, too heavy, doesn't conceal well, you won't carry it.
No matter how well it fits your hand or how well it shoots, if its under the seat of the car when you need it...
My all-the-time carry gun is an anemic KelTec .32. No matter what happens I have the little pea shooter with me. I'd prefer a .45acp, but that isn't always reasonable.
I may be carrying another gun that is of more potent caliber with more rounds, but the P32 is somewhere within reach.
Real life: A good friend of mine was found dead in a bar. All four people were shot and killed execution-style for $900 in the register.
My friend's (actually all four were friends, but the only male's) .357 was found under the seat of his car outside.
If ya ain't got it with ya, ya ain't got it when ya need it.
You'll carry this thing for 10,000 hours and need it for three seconds. Choose what is reliable and WILL be there when you need it.

 

[JDGray]

I like guns with enough grip to draw and shoot easily. I had a P11, couldn't hit good with it, it was reliable and all, but a G26 isn't much larger and much better weapon. The baby Glocks were just a tad short, and ended up with a G19. It fit me better, could draw it cleanly, only slightly larger than the 26. Good luck, a good holster will make most guns disapear. VMII for one

 

[Storz]

Thanks for all the good insight. I just found out there is a range near me where you can rent pretty much anything, I am going to head up there soon put a few rounds through each of those pistols.

This will be my first larger caliber handgun, I shot indoor bullseye for a while as well as outdoor smallbore rifle and pistol. Nothing competitive, just did it for fun.

 

[Mad Magyar]

So what should I focus more on, comfort while carrying, or comfort while shooting?? My gut instinct tells me to get the smaller Kel-Tec because it will be more comfortable to wear, meaning I am more likely to wear it.

This is a dilemma we all face when carrying. Somehow, we all compromise one way or the other by season, clothing, and yes: comfort....

 

[Schmidlin]

Just to throw another monkey at this, a 9mm really isn't your best choice for CCW. It lacks really any stopping power compared to a 40sw or a 45acp. Granted im comparing a paper clip to a stapler, but you may want to look at the Taurus Pt145 or the Pt140.

Just an opinion thats all.

 

[sharpetop]

I've been carrying for nearly 30 years and have many handguns I can carry. Most of the time my S&W 642 or sometimes my Kel-Tec P3AT are in my pocket. They are lightweight, simple to operate, easily carried in a pocket and you don't have to thread a belt through a holster every time you leave the house.

IMHO, these are not novice guns and take alot of trigger time to become proficiant. However, because of their size and weight they are guns a person will always have with them.

With that said, I would probably go with the PF9 for the reasons stated above. Serial #s R4 and above are proving to be very reliable. Earlier ones had some teething issues. Check out www.ktog.org for more info on the PF9.

 

[Brian Williams]

Just to throw another monkey at this, a 9mm really isn't your best choice for CCW. It lacks really any stopping power compared to a 40sw or a 45acp. Granted im comparing a paper clip to a stapler, but you may want to look at the Taurus Pt145 or the Pt140.

Just an opinion thats all.

Not part of this thread, but a 9mm has been hashed all over this site and looking at ballistics and penetration data, a 9mm holds it own. My opinion thats all



For a class, take the one that will soak up the recoil...

 

[Ringer]

Thoughts?

It's definetly a compromise, and not an easy one to figure out. You need a gun that you can shoot well. You need a package (gun, holster, belt), or prefereably a couple to choose from, that are comfortable enough that you will carry on a regular basis. For me the optimum seems to be pistol with about a 4" barrel and a 5" (or slightly under) height. While the longer barrel may be no harder to conceal, assuming IWB, it definetly is less comfortable for me. Guns with short grips that only allow 2 fingers I typicaly don't shoot as well. With that said I do frequently carry a Kahr PM-9 because it just dissappears in a Sparks VM-II holster. I shoot it fairly well for a small pistol, but I'm still not thrilled about a gun I can't get a full grip on. Compromise. One other thing I have bounced back and forth on is external safety versus non external safety. Some people that shoot a lot may be fine with a combination of the two. For me, I have standardized on one manual of arms.

Don't know if any of this helps but hopefully some things to think about. Hoping this stays on topic for you.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My friend's (actually all four were friends, but the only male's) .357 was found under the seat of his car outside. If ya ain't got it with ya, ya ain't got it when ya need it.

loop,
I don't know about your state but in my state you can't carry a handgun in a bar.

Sorry to hear your friends were killed, especially for money alone.

 

[LT1coupe]

I have a P11 that has been a great gun, the PF9 has had some teething problems that I'm not sure are fixed yet. I've been to CCW classes that had to wait on FTF's & it's no fun to be the guy holding up the class. My current daily carry is the PT145 & I've grown to really like the gun. If your only going to buy one, I'd recommend the PT140, you know you'll have a big enough gun & it's not too expensive to shoot.

Edit: After thinking about my response, the reason I didn't recommend the PT111 is that you'll lust after a large caliber very soon if you don't. I went with a P32 & a .380 or two trying for comfort & concealability before realizing they were inadequate for self defense. I've bought several guns to get where I'm at with the Taurus PT145 & plan to add a PT140 or maybe a PT111 to my collection so I can practice less expensively with the same frame.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

ArchAngelCD you cant carry a gun in a "bar" in any state. buuuuuut. sometimes its best to ask for forgiveness then permission.

 

[mr.72]

wonderful how this is turning into a caliber war.

FWIW, I recently bought my second handgun, a Kahr CW9. It is nearly the same dimensions as a PF-9 but IMHO is far more comfortable to shoot, and has a much better reliability track record. I think it's just a higher-quality firearm. I seriously considered a K-T but the Kahr was just a much better value given the modest price difference and a large quality difference.

However I also own a bigger gun that is more comfortable to shoot, and I prefer to have a high capacity double-stack 9mm on hand if possible. IMHO if you can only have one gun, it should probably be a bigger one and then just work out a way to carry it. I think the compact gun would be good for a second gun.

If you like the size of the P111 then try a M&P9c, only a few bucks more, a little bigger, and a much better gun. Or maybe a Glock 26. But I think the odds are that if you can conceal a P111, you can conceal a G19-size gun with a longer sight radius, one that's more comfortable to shoot, and with more magazine capacity.

IMHO YMMV and all that.

 

[springmom]

Thread......necromancy.........

(What caliber for a zombie thread?)

Springmom

 

[Nickotym]

Helz said:

ArchAngelCD you cant carry a gun in a "bar" in any state.

Actually I believe there are several states in which bar carry is not off limits. I believe IN and MN are two such states.

 

[3KillerBs]

A Taurus Millenium Pro is a quite small gun -- small enough even for me to conceal despite my being a short, overweight woman with some physical malproportions.

You don't say, but if you are an average-size man you should be able to conceal that with ease and even go considerably larger with a good holster and a little thought. My DH, 5'10" and 195lbs, carries a S&W M&P semi-auto. The butt prints a little in some shirts so he's thinking of getting the compact version too but improved shirt selection pretty much eliminates the problem.

Many larger women can also conceal these full-size guns or, at least, the regular compact size instead of requiring the subcompacts and micro-subcompacts.

If you're a new shooter you need a gun that you can train with. My understanding is that the little Kel-tecs are NOT intended to fire hundreds of rounds weekly.

 

[texas bulldog]

Actually I believe there are several states in which bar carry is not off limits. I believe IN and MN are two such states.

isn't VT one as well? i could be wrong on that one, but i know there are states that do not prohibit carry in bars.

 

[mercop]

All tool considerations need to go in the following order-
Selection
Carry
Deployment
Use

It has to be that way, if you don't carry it you cannot use it. That said you need to be comfortable shooting the gun so that puts it into selection. Don't be one of the people buying a $500 pistol and then spending $20 on a holster to hang on your church belt. You need good carry gear. Don't skimp.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

ArchAngelCD you cant carry a gun in a "bar" in any state. buuuuuut. sometimes its best to ask for forgiveness then permission.

helz_mcfugly,
You brought a thread back from the dead that was at rest for over 8 months just to tell me that? It is NOT illegal to carry a handgun in a bar in PA.

Here is the link to the PA Uniform Firearms Act. If you can find where it tells me I can't carry in a bar I would appreciate is since I can't find it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Clint Smith said, "A gun should be comforting, not necessarily comfortable." I agree with that sentiment.

That has to be one of the worst things Clint Smith ever said. It just showed that he didn't find a proper holster. People seem to justify it to make bad carry choices. Every time I went to Thunder Ranch, I would hear him say it and I would just snicker to myself.

You can make a larger gun plenty comfortable to carry with a proper holster and carry position and they should not be in conflict with access. The notion of carrying a smaller gun that you won't like to shoot as much because you carry more than you shoot it is silly if the basis is comfort of carry.

Of course, comfort is subjective.

 

[helz_mcfugly]

Act of 1990 contains an exception for individuals carrying under a state-issued permit, but some states that issue permits forbid carry in schools),
establishments that sell alcohol (some ban carry from all such establishments such as liquor stores and restaurants, others only from businesses defined as "bars" by state liquor laws),

Ill admit when Im wrong. and sorry I didnt look at the date you posted that to see it wasnt breathing any longer. but yea Its a state to state thing on the bars. Here in TX you cant carry if the places net income from consumed alcohol sales is more then a certain percentage. The instructor who I got my CHL from said it was nation wide. my point wasnt to prove anyone wrong. more, its better to say "sorry I forgot to leave my gun in the car" then to get killed in an altercation because you didnt have your fire arm in a place you werent supposed to have it.