comitted for depression as a minor

[samuraimoose]

I live In PA and have all my life I am now 24 years old when I was 14 i was committed for depression. I do not think I was 302ed but I would not rule it out.
I'm wondering if this will hinder me in owning a gun, assuming I was 302ed.
I made the mistake if saying I wish I was dead in front of a public school teacher, there is more to the story but I'd rather not to share that part of my past here and now, I hope you guys n' gals understand. long boring story short I left there in a week and have no issues sense.
I am not "suffering from depression" now and I nor any one I know see any real risk with me owning a gun.
assuming I was 302ed is this all they will see and imminently bar me from owning even though I was a minor when it happened is there time span for this? I have a perfect record other wise
is there a way to run a PICS on my self online some how to find out with out going to the gun store?

thanks for the help.

 

[Mike1234567]

I can't help you there, pardner, but this thread interests me so I'll lurk.

 

[boomer1911a1]

Call a gun store in a neighboring county. Explain your situation. And try more than one; interpretations may differ.

 

[USAF_Vet]

As a minor, would that record not be sealed? I'm assuming you haven't tried to buy a gun, but I would almost think that would be the only way to know 100%.

Here in MI, I have to get a pistol purchase permit, so I wind up getting two BG checks for each handgun I buy, one from the local LE, one from NICS. It's Michigan's backdoor handgun registration. But one would find out pretty quick if they were prohibited or not that way. I know someone who has an old DV conviction who applied (and was denied) a pistol purchase permit. The local LE said they were denied, and why. That was it. The ATF didn't come kicking in the door.

I'm not a lawyer, but if you're curious about passing an NICS check, just try to buy a gun.

 

[drcook]

go to the juvenile court and request to see your records. if there is anything there, go through the motions to either have it sealed or expunged. then pay the money and consult a lawyer. then you will know for sure.

 

[Jeff H]

go to the juvenile court and request to see your records. if there is anything there, go through the motions to either have it sealed or expunged.

no need to pay a lawyer. Petition the court to have the records expunged, and show up to court and explain it to the magistrate. If you made it to 24 without any more trouble, you are a success to the Juvenile courts and they will gladly seal your records if you ask them.

I've seen it done for more serious crimes.

 

[ArtP]

I wish you the best, but in most states, an uxpument or sealing, only seals you from the public - such as an employer or your creditors. LE enforcement still has access to those records - that's true for adults, but minors may be different.

The law you can look up is called "lautenberg". The Lautenberg didn't change too much in my eyes when it ws enacted..

In my great stat of CA, if one cop wants to take you in for an evaluation, - AND YOU are FOUND SANE - you'l still lose you privilege for life. If you're found guilty in any state, you're done under federal law, unless one of your parents is a judge or something.

Not that you asked, But I believe a conviction for 5150 ought to get you ten, but if you're found sane - they should come out and deliver your guns after they're properly cleaned and lubricaed.!
You should speak to an attorney, in my state we have two that are VERY good and they take pro-bono work too (free). Perhaps your state has something similar.

You might get info from this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban

 

[belercous]

This is not a "permanent" disabilty. In Illinois one cannot own a firearm for 5 years after an involuntary mental health hospitalization. I believe (but am not certain) that the federal gov. also uses 5 years from the date of an involuntary hospitalization. If you checked in voluntarily, this is not an issue.

Or, just try to buy a gun as USAF Vet said.

Art; an expungement is just that, it is expunged from one's record and cannot be used against the person, even for legal purposes. A sealed record is different, it is not an expungement.

 

[bikemutt]

There is a very simple procedure to obtain your FBI record, if one exists. The only cost is to have your fingerprints rolled by your local law enforcement agency, there may be some nominal cost above that but, if there is, it's small.

Why guess, when for a few bucks you can know?

I would not recommend guessing on form 4473. Know, not guess, as Yoda would have said, if he were real

 

[Hk Paul]

I had to go to a mental hospital when I was in H.S. I was under the age of 18. I am now 26 and have plenty of guns. I am pretty sure you were not involuntary put there- you would know… Buy with confidence! PM me if you have any further questions.

 

[samuraimoose]

I would not recommend guessing on form 4473. Know, not guess, as Yoda would have said, if he were real

"

exactly last i looked ignorance is not def. for breaking the law. and I'd rather keep my record clean

 

[mortablunt]

Why not just try to buy a firearm? I'm pretty sure that Juvenile (at least criminal) records are not for public access. Here's what the FBI says

Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving

A delay response from the NICS Section indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with either a state or federal potentially prohibiting record containing a similar name and/or similar descriptive features (name, sex, race, date of birth, state of residence, social security number, height, weight, or place of birth). The federally prohibiting criteria are as follows:

A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.
Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.
An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.
A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.
A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.
A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.
A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.
The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.
A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

__________
I do not believe that you said that you were declared incompetent and whatnot. Therefore, it should be okay.

 

[JohnBT]

You know how on tv the prosecutor always tries to work a deal and avoid going to court?

You were a 14-year-old and I would bet your parents signed the admission papers rather than have the school and legal system drag it all in front of a judge. Or maybe the system did a 72-hour evaluation (that doesn't count when it comes to guns) and then your parents signed for admission. It's hard to tell from here. If they did sign you in, you were not involuntarily committed. Being a kid, your parents get to make those decisions for you.

It's all in the details.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

You're fine. I had a similar thing happen in my early 20's after some heavy drinking.

They have 72 hours to evaluate you, after that they give you the option of signing a paper to become voluntary, and then it does not go to the courts, and you are not admitted by the courts or a judge etc.

 

[samuraimoose]

You were a 14-year-old and I would bet your parents signed the admission papers rather than have the school and legal system drag it all in front of a judge

at this time i was living with a foster family,(later my adoptive parents) they had little to no rights to sign or remove my from the hospital, this was all done by the school district. but i never had to appear in court.
I think ill go down to my local police department and see what I can do to get my records or at least a look at them.

 

[samuraimoose]

found this here

Eligibility Requirements

Federal law renders certain mentally ill persons ineligible to possess firearms. Under federal law, it is illegal for a person who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution" to possess a firearm. 118 U.S.C. § 922(g). ATF regulations (see 27 CFR 178.11) define "adjudicated as a mental defective" to mean:

(a) A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease:

(1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or

(2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.

(b) The term shall include:

(1) A finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and

(2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility pursuant to articles 50a and 72b of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 10 U.S.C. 850a, 876b.

by reading just this am i correcting in assuming that even a person diagnosed with a mental illness can possess a fire arm as long as they have a clean record and live on there own with no problems. I must be missing some thing

 

[Hk Paul]

Everyone has had problems in life. Everyone is mentally unstable. The question is to what degree and in what area(s). My take of the law is that they are trying to restrict people with serious mental issues, not someone who has suffered from depression or simply grew up in the 90's or early 2000's.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

A involuntary psychiatric evaluation does not bar you from owning a gun (except maybe California for a few years, even if you were just drunk and rowdy)..

It goes down to a 72 hour evaluation, in which time they offer you the option of either leaving, or if they want to keep you, you have the option of becoming "voluntary". Its when you DON'T sign the papers to become voluntary things escalate to a judge, and then you could qualify as "committed". I've never seen this happen, as most psych incidents result in less than a 7 day stay these days.

 

[JohnBT]

"this was all done by the school district"

They probably had the department of social services handle it since you were in foster care. Even if the school system went straight to the local mental health department/community services board, if you were in foster care then social services was still responsible for you and could have signed off on a voluntary admission.

Involuntary committment is where everybody says, "He's not going to the hospital" and the judge/hearing officer says you certainly are. But it's just easier on everybody, and less paperwork, to go the voluntary route. Most admissions are voluntary (coerced maybe with some arm twisting or threats, but legally the paperwork says voluntary.)

It's all in the details.

 

[JohnBT]

"I must be missing some thing"

No, you have the general idea. If a person doesn't precisely meet one of the listed laws then they're not prohibited. The biggies are felonies, domestic abuse and involuntary committment. And not guilty by reason of insanity (which is a legal decision and not a medical or psychiatric diagnosis.)

John

 

[samuraimoose]

"I must be missing some thing"

No, you have the general idea. If a person doesn't precisely meet one of the listed laws then they're not prohibited. The biggies are felonies, domestic abuse and involuntary committment. And not guilty by reason of insanity (which is a legal decision and not a medical or psychiatric diagnosis.)

John

thanks I'd rather assume I'm ignorant that assume I'm right... the consequences of the former are far better than the consequences of the later....

sorry I work 3rd shift and I'm just trying to sound intelligent XD

 

[Cop Bob]

I was going to 100% agree with USAFvet ....BEFORE I thought this through...Like any true shooter, you have to think through the shot, and make a possible determination as to just where this round is going to stop, or where it could...

Juvenile records are sealed once you reach the age of consent.. If it was just an evaluation, then more than likely no paperwork was turned in on you...

Your only legal and moral dilemma comes to the truthful answer that you will HAVE to place on that 4473 form.... are you ready for that one?

Be aware, that the 4473 form is a Government Document... and that their are penalties in every state, as well as Federal Penalties for Falsifying a Government Document...

Before you get to that point,, having thought that through,, you had better go find out if you HAVE ever be adjudicated as incompetent

 

[samuraimoose]

would I not be legally required to be there if i had been adjudicated as incompetent? and if not. there has to be some way out of that because to be best of my ability i have not.

the answer does not really matter i have decided to go ask the local court house of one of the police officers i have made friends with im my area.

 

[USAF_Vet]

As far as you know, you have not, to the best of your knowledge, been adjudicated mentally impaired or deficient. An answer of No on the 4473 would be a truthful answer.