Comments wanted on a new poster (NSFW?)
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
- Start date
- Status
Take a look around on here at various threads on you'll find plenty of pro-gunners having an emotional response to anti-gun propaganda. That's what propaganda is supposed to do: first to make you feel, then to make you think. So there's nothing wrong with having an emotional response as long as it is tempered with logical reasoning. However, when searching for a new audience to target you have to make sure that you don't lose the one that you already have.
Were I an art director that was just handed this piece as a comp, I would not sign off on it. I get what it's going for, and I have no objection to either object personally, but losing a great percentage of the target audience (as well as a percentage of the audience you already have) is not a chance I would be willing to take. It just isn't fit for public consumption...figuratively speaking. It may be in a few years or so, but it isn't now.
I'll put it this way...if I wouldn't use an item in front of my parents, then I wouldn't stick said item on an advertisement for the public to view.
Were I an art director that was just handed this piece as a comp, I would not sign off on it. I get what it's going for, and I have no objection to either object personally, but losing a great percentage of the target audience (as well as a percentage of the audience you already have) is not a chance I would be willing to take. It just isn't fit for public consumption...figuratively speaking. It may be in a few years or so, but it isn't now.
I'll put it this way...if I wouldn't use an item in front of my parents, then I wouldn't stick said item on an advertisement for the public to view.
coylh
Member
After seeing some of the "no" responses in this thread, I think this poster is actually more important for the choir rather than the rest of the world.
How would you all feel about people in your city wanting to open carry vibrators in public? You know--to the grocery store, movies, your local Panera chain? I'm not talking about pictures of vibrators here, I'm talking about real, fully charged vibrators that could be used at a moment's notice.
How would you all feel about people in your city wanting to open carry vibrators in public? You know--to the grocery store, movies, your local Panera chain? I'm not talking about pictures of vibrators here, I'm talking about real, fully charged vibrators that could be used at a moment's notice.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
My kids have seen commercials depicting hemhorroid creams, tampons, every kind of liquor you can imagine, methamphetamines and pot--to name but a few. Explaining--or giving a good reason not to explain--is part of my job as a parent. 200 years ago when everything was perfect and simple and people were good and children were rosy-cheeked little cherubs, a LOT of them grew up on farms watching pigs get castrated and animals of every description mate vigorously in farmyard mud. I'm just not buying the delicate family morals argument.
In this case, there's one more flaw with that argument--way back on page one or two, Springmom said the comparison is false because "a revolver is not embarassing." Why not? You can explain (or, again, give a good reason not to explain) owning a lethal weapon, but you can't explain or deflect a question about a sex toy? How do you explain it when your child asks why you carry something you may use to kill someone?
Or, more likely, have you treated your gun as if it's something natural, and your child as if it were something intelligent, and thus no big confrontation about the issue ever came up? That approach works for just about everything, not just guns.
To paraphrase Johnny Unitas, "I like to have sex as much as Joe Namath or anybody else. I just like to have it with my wife."
In this case, there's one more flaw with that argument--way back on page one or two, Springmom said the comparison is false because "a revolver is not embarassing." Why not? You can explain (or, again, give a good reason not to explain) owning a lethal weapon, but you can't explain or deflect a question about a sex toy? How do you explain it when your child asks why you carry something you may use to kill someone?
Or, more likely, have you treated your gun as if it's something natural, and your child as if it were something intelligent, and thus no big confrontation about the issue ever came up? That approach works for just about everything, not just guns.
To paraphrase Johnny Unitas, "I like to have sex as much as Joe Namath or anybody else. I just like to have it with my wife."
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Very good question.
fjolnirsson
Member
I find it interesting how offended and upset folks can get over a few ounces of plastic and metal, whatever the configuration....
Brings to mind an old saying about motes and planks....
Brings to mind an old saying about motes and planks....
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Well, clearly it is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. . . . but seriously, minding your own business does wonders for your blood pressure. I highly recommend it.
Because shooting is not a private behavior. Sex is. We shoot at ranges, we shoot on hunts, we shoot at matches, we carry for self defense (in fortunate states, openly). Shooting, and its accoutrements, are not private and personal. Sex is. Sex gizmos are.
Personally, when I use the term "family oriented" I'm not thinking of my children, or of children in particular, but rather a "PG rated" level of discourse. And I'm getting annoyed at the implication, repeated more than once in this thread, that opposition to this image is somehow linked with an inability or unwillingness to explain sex and other issues to our children. Speaking for my own family we did that just fine, thanks, without embarassment and without pulling any punches. But they didn't see images of vibrators on posters around town, either. What they did see, what they did ask, they got explanations for.
One more time: I fully support everybody's right to play with whatever toys they want. I fully support Oleg's right to put together whatever posters he wants. The man asked for feedback, he got it, and those of you who like this poster will NOT let it go. There's been labelling and namecalling and presumptions out the wahoo, that only one person who's opposed the poster has countered with inappropriate verbiage (and he apologized for his). I don't like it, I don't have to like it, and I think I'm done with this thread. This is getting ridiculous.
Springmom
Pitt762x54r
Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 48
My $0.02
First off, I only read about 7 pages so far so I am sorry if I missed anything.
1. Would I post this in a public area where kids have access to it:
Yes, I might. The young ones won't know what it is and won't care. The parents have the job of explaining the ways of the world and this is one of them. In fact, I think it is more responsible than posting a picture of paris hilton or some other poor role model for the kids.
2. A while back a comment was made as to why someone would even have a marital aid in the house:
Well, because I can and I want to. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one. The same thing can be said for almost any object including guns. I happed to be open sexually and like to enjoy the time I spend with my partner and the aid posted seems like a great way to party.
3. You can have them, but self defence and perverted actions are not equal.
Guns are not always about self defence, they are also used for sport and recreation. I don't consider a marital aid to be offensive in any way, shape, or form and it certainly has a number of uses that should remain legal. In the end this poster is comparing rights of ownership and I think that is a powerful message. I personally do not think it clouds the argument at all.
The actual act of sexual behavior is condicted in private, however it is discussed rather openly in society. Sex is used in marketing and ads, posted all over television and movies, and is in posters all the time. Almost every magazine in the grocery store shows cleavage. I consider this just a sign of the era, and that's not always a bad thing.
For the record springmom, I do agree with you that sex should be left private (unless you like it public
) but in today's world you have a lot to explain about sex to your children and i don't think this is a big deal all things considered
those are my thoughts after scanning the thread,
Keep up the good work Oleg!
Brian
First off, I only read about 7 pages so far so I am sorry if I missed anything.
1. Would I post this in a public area where kids have access to it:
Yes, I might. The young ones won't know what it is and won't care. The parents have the job of explaining the ways of the world and this is one of them. In fact, I think it is more responsible than posting a picture of paris hilton or some other poor role model for the kids.
2. A while back a comment was made as to why someone would even have a marital aid in the house:
Well, because I can and I want to. If you don't want one, you don't have to have one. The same thing can be said for almost any object including guns. I happed to be open sexually and like to enjoy the time I spend with my partner and the aid posted seems like a great way to party.
3. You can have them, but self defence and perverted actions are not equal.
Guns are not always about self defence, they are also used for sport and recreation. I don't consider a marital aid to be offensive in any way, shape, or form and it certainly has a number of uses that should remain legal. In the end this poster is comparing rights of ownership and I think that is a powerful message. I personally do not think it clouds the argument at all.
The actual act of sexual behavior is condicted in private, however it is discussed rather openly in society. Sex is used in marketing and ads, posted all over television and movies, and is in posters all the time. Almost every magazine in the grocery store shows cleavage. I consider this just a sign of the era, and that's not always a bad thing.
For the record springmom, I do agree with you that sex should be left private (unless you like it public
) but in today's world you have a lot to explain about sex to your children and i don't think this is a big deal all things consideredthose are my thoughts after scanning the thread,
Keep up the good work Oleg!
Brian
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XavierBreath
Member
I find the intolerance here interesting. The irony is the free-thinking hypocrisy. There are those who are so self righteous that fail to see their own intolerance. Springmom should not be compeled to defend her opinion simply because it is not the popular one here. We do not all have to agree.
The High Road has taken down photos of dead soldiers in Iraq. We decided such photos were not appropriate on this forum. The High Road has taken down photos of IED damaged Hummers and Strykers. We decided they were not appropriate on this forum. The High Road has taken down photos of graphic sexual acts. We decided they were not appropriate for this forum. Where is the line drawn? Will the line be on the left or the right of the *****?
I have to wonder if a member took a very well composed and nicely lit photo of a Smith & Wesson M&P, a deck of cards, a cigar, a *****, and of course the ever present wrist watch, and posted it here............Would that photo be considered acceptable?
Perhaps we should rethink all photos.......afterall, they are just arrangements of pixels, right?
The High Road has taken down photos of dead soldiers in Iraq. We decided such photos were not appropriate on this forum. The High Road has taken down photos of IED damaged Hummers and Strykers. We decided they were not appropriate on this forum. The High Road has taken down photos of graphic sexual acts. We decided they were not appropriate for this forum. Where is the line drawn? Will the line be on the left or the right of the *****?
I have to wonder if a member took a very well composed and nicely lit photo of a Smith & Wesson M&P, a deck of cards, a cigar, a *****, and of course the ever present wrist watch, and posted it here............Would that photo be considered acceptable?
Perhaps we should rethink all photos.......afterall, they are just arrangements of pixels, right?
JerryM
Member
Vulgar and offensive.
Some do not accept that “No man is an island.” There should be a sense of decency in society. When one wears the “F” word on a tee shirt, it takes away my right to take my wife and children out in public without being offended by filthy language.
There was a time when people were sensitive to the values of others. That was before the self centered thinking that no one had a right to impose moral values. Yet it has always been the case in this nation that values were imposed on others. Many of our laws do just that.
Realize that someone’s moral values are forced upon others in any case. If you wear the “F” word on your shirt you have forced your values upon others who do not consider that as acceptable, and find it offensive, but you think they should find it acceptable as that is within your moral standards.
As to free speech, half century ago it would have gotten you arrested to wear a with the F word or S Happens on your shirt. If the Constitution permits the language, then why would it not have been permitted 100 years ago? That was closer to the time it was written than now. Using such words in public where they would be heard by others would also have gotten you arrested. You think you have a right to use vulgar language where others present will/must hear. I think I have a right to not have to hear and such language.
The values of those who have little concern or sensitivity for the values of others, and what they find offensive, have been forced upon those of us who have higher moral, Christian values.
The area of moral values is where I part company with the Libertarians.
The original poster shown is in poor taste, and something that should not be shown to those who are young and those who object.
Jerry
Some do not accept that “No man is an island.” There should be a sense of decency in society. When one wears the “F” word on a tee shirt, it takes away my right to take my wife and children out in public without being offended by filthy language.
There was a time when people were sensitive to the values of others. That was before the self centered thinking that no one had a right to impose moral values. Yet it has always been the case in this nation that values were imposed on others. Many of our laws do just that.
Realize that someone’s moral values are forced upon others in any case. If you wear the “F” word on your shirt you have forced your values upon others who do not consider that as acceptable, and find it offensive, but you think they should find it acceptable as that is within your moral standards.
As to free speech, half century ago it would have gotten you arrested to wear a with the F word or S Happens on your shirt. If the Constitution permits the language, then why would it not have been permitted 100 years ago? That was closer to the time it was written than now. Using such words in public where they would be heard by others would also have gotten you arrested. You think you have a right to use vulgar language where others present will/must hear. I think I have a right to not have to hear and such language.
The values of those who have little concern or sensitivity for the values of others, and what they find offensive, have been forced upon those of us who have higher moral, Christian values.
The area of moral values is where I part company with the Libertarians.
The original poster shown is in poor taste, and something that should not be shown to those who are young and those who object.
Jerry
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The world is a cold, hard place, and doesn't care one bit what you find offensive. If you go to a war zone, you'll see people die. If you watch the nature channel, you'll occasionally see animals having sex. If you hang out on (hopefully) open-minded forums like this, you should expect to see things, or read things, that make you uncomfortable from time to time.
If that causes you to reject this place, that's your loss, not ours.
I think it was springmom who mentioned that the media and conversation didn't used to be saturated with sex-related topics. If I understand correctly, the idea is that people who think like that want realms carved out of public discourse. What's next? If medical discussions make me queasy, can I legitimately say we'd be better off if they only took place between doctors, patients, and their kin? I don't think so.
Oleg, how about a poster with a gun, and a woman going into a planned parenthood clinic?
JerryM
Member
Quote:
The world is a cold, hard place, and doesn't care one bit what you find offensive. If you go to a war zone, you'll see people die. If you watch the nature channel, you'll occasionally see animals having sex. If you hang out on (hopefully) open-minded forums like this, you should expect to see things, or read things, that make you uncomfortable from time to time.
If that causes you to reject this place, that's your loss, not ours.Quote
Some care and some do not. The "do nots" outnumber the "dos." But a society who cares about self only, and little about others is a poor society. It was not always the case.
There is a lot of difference in war zones, nature channel, and what humans do in more normal times and circumstances.
If 50 years ago one had gone into a house and family was present, and used vulgar language or cursed, he would have been told to leave immediately. Yet now people invite it into their homes for their children and wives to listen to and see without any qualms. Is it any wonder we have the large numbers of teen pregnancies, and crime problems that we experience? Not in my view.
When a society feeds its minds with filth, then that becomes the norm, and what was once filthy and unacceptable becomes the norm. That is to the detriment of that society.
We have taught that life is not so important by the way it is snuffed out in movies and video games, and TV.
We teach that sex outside of marriage is what everyone does, again by our movies and such. So folks have become insensitive to the moral values that we held earlier in our history. That is what we are finding here in this very thread. Men have become lovers of self, and without a conscience that can convict because it does not know right from wrong in the area of morality.
One's conscience is clear in the same sense that a headhunter's is clear, because he has not been taught correct moral values.
So at times I will dissent when such things as the original poster are shown, and so many either approve, or are prone to accept it due to not wanting to be intolerant. Tolerance is not always a virtue.
If you do not want an honest answer then don't ask. I think the desire was for honest answers, although he may not have expect morality to enter in.
We teach morality either by default or design, but we teach it nevertheless.
Regards,
Jerry
The world is a cold, hard place, and doesn't care one bit what you find offensive. If you go to a war zone, you'll see people die. If you watch the nature channel, you'll occasionally see animals having sex. If you hang out on (hopefully) open-minded forums like this, you should expect to see things, or read things, that make you uncomfortable from time to time.
If that causes you to reject this place, that's your loss, not ours.Quote
Some care and some do not. The "do nots" outnumber the "dos." But a society who cares about self only, and little about others is a poor society. It was not always the case.
There is a lot of difference in war zones, nature channel, and what humans do in more normal times and circumstances.
If 50 years ago one had gone into a house and family was present, and used vulgar language or cursed, he would have been told to leave immediately. Yet now people invite it into their homes for their children and wives to listen to and see without any qualms. Is it any wonder we have the large numbers of teen pregnancies, and crime problems that we experience? Not in my view.
When a society feeds its minds with filth, then that becomes the norm, and what was once filthy and unacceptable becomes the norm. That is to the detriment of that society.
We have taught that life is not so important by the way it is snuffed out in movies and video games, and TV.
We teach that sex outside of marriage is what everyone does, again by our movies and such. So folks have become insensitive to the moral values that we held earlier in our history. That is what we are finding here in this very thread. Men have become lovers of self, and without a conscience that can convict because it does not know right from wrong in the area of morality.
One's conscience is clear in the same sense that a headhunter's is clear, because he has not been taught correct moral values.
So at times I will dissent when such things as the original poster are shown, and so many either approve, or are prone to accept it due to not wanting to be intolerant. Tolerance is not always a virtue.
If you do not want an honest answer then don't ask. I think the desire was for honest answers, although he may not have expect morality to enter in.
We teach morality either by default or design, but we teach it nevertheless.
Regards,
Jerry
Jerry...
"...those of us who have higher moral, christian values." Sorry, ain't buyin' that 'holier than thou' crap. Who are you to say that your values *have* more value than mine? Your morals and your's only are the only correct morals? Sex is filth?
What arrogance. What pomposity.
Now *I'm* offended by your statement.
You're too uptight. You need more sex, I think.
Biker
"...those of us who have higher moral, christian values." Sorry, ain't buyin' that 'holier than thou' crap. Who are you to say that your values *have* more value than mine? Your morals and your's only are the only correct morals? Sex is filth?
What arrogance. What pomposity.
Now *I'm* offended by your statement.
You're too uptight. You need more sex, I think.
Biker
Great poster...even to an anti this is an image and a thought that will stick with them and at least make them think about something other than evil guns. For those on the fence it may not make them love guns, but at the very least it will make them reconsider blind faith and/or trust in government. Great job!
JerryM
Member
Hi Biker,
{ "...those of us who have higher moral, christian values." Sorry, ain't buyin' that 'holier than thou' crap. Who are you to say that your values *have* more value than mine? Your morals and your's only are the only correct morals? Sex is filth?
What arrogance. What pomposity.
Now *I'm* offended by your statement.
You're too uptight. You need more sex, I think.}
Yes, my morals are correct because I am not the author of them, but God has spoken in His word, and He is sovereign.
Whether you buy it or not, and I don't expect you to, doesn't change the fact that there are absolute moral values.
I am not surprised that you are offended, as that is what we, who hold to the moral values upon which this nation was founded and made great can expect.
Just as I said, the movies, TV, the hollywood crowd, and games have caused the society to think that wrong is right, and right is wrong. It has raised a generation that has not learned correct moral values.
So we have folks who do not respect life, and murder, and then gun laws. Yet so many fail to see the connection between immorality and what we are experiencing.
We have a high rate of teen and out of wedlock pregnancies, and fail to see the connection or the lack of moral values which causes such. So we spend millions taking care of those unwed mothers and their children. In many cases grand parents must take care of those children, while mothers are on drugs or in prison, or have just abandoned the children. There is a lack of natural affection.
No, I do not expect to convince many or any, but that is not my responsibility. My responsibility is to put forth the values that will contribute to a more orderly, safer, and caring society. One in which our children are not molested by teachers, and kidnapped and raped by others. It can never be fully stopped, but it can be reduced, as it once was. Immorality has consequences, and they are not good for the nation.
One who is convinced that his liberty and his desires are the most important things in the world will always be offended by any thought that he is wrong, and that he must alter some of his actions.
This thread began with a question, and when I finally looked I answered. I will always do that wherever I am. I sometimes see posts that indicate that there immorality, but I do not post in those as to that, but if I post I attempt to post according to the question. But this involves morality directly, and so I have posted accordingly.
Best,
Jerry
{ "...those of us who have higher moral, christian values." Sorry, ain't buyin' that 'holier than thou' crap. Who are you to say that your values *have* more value than mine? Your morals and your's only are the only correct morals? Sex is filth?
What arrogance. What pomposity.
Now *I'm* offended by your statement.
You're too uptight. You need more sex, I think.}
Yes, my morals are correct because I am not the author of them, but God has spoken in His word, and He is sovereign.
Whether you buy it or not, and I don't expect you to, doesn't change the fact that there are absolute moral values.
I am not surprised that you are offended, as that is what we, who hold to the moral values upon which this nation was founded and made great can expect.
Just as I said, the movies, TV, the hollywood crowd, and games have caused the society to think that wrong is right, and right is wrong. It has raised a generation that has not learned correct moral values.
So we have folks who do not respect life, and murder, and then gun laws. Yet so many fail to see the connection between immorality and what we are experiencing.
We have a high rate of teen and out of wedlock pregnancies, and fail to see the connection or the lack of moral values which causes such. So we spend millions taking care of those unwed mothers and their children. In many cases grand parents must take care of those children, while mothers are on drugs or in prison, or have just abandoned the children. There is a lack of natural affection.
No, I do not expect to convince many or any, but that is not my responsibility. My responsibility is to put forth the values that will contribute to a more orderly, safer, and caring society. One in which our children are not molested by teachers, and kidnapped and raped by others. It can never be fully stopped, but it can be reduced, as it once was. Immorality has consequences, and they are not good for the nation.
One who is convinced that his liberty and his desires are the most important things in the world will always be offended by any thought that he is wrong, and that he must alter some of his actions.
This thread began with a question, and when I finally looked I answered. I will always do that wherever I am. I sometimes see posts that indicate that there immorality, but I do not post in those as to that, but if I post I attempt to post according to the question. But this involves morality directly, and so I have posted accordingly.
Best,
Jerry
coylh
Member
C'mon guys, the topic of discussion is too important to squander on "my religion is the one true religion" shouting matches.
JerryM
Member
Hi coylh,
{C'mon guys, the topic of discussion is too important to squander on "my religion is the one true religion" shouting matches.}
That is not the issue. The issue is right and wrong in the area of morals that should be furthered or tolerated. To picture a *****, or whatever it is called, is an image that cannot further our cause, but instead will offend some who will be sidetracked as to what the real issue is.
It may very well give us the image of a bunch of folks who are crude, and vulgar, and who do not care what they foist on others including children. There would be some truth in that conclusion as evidenced by this thread.
I think that is more important than keeping such an image. One who is creative can do much better than that. Why offend anyone if it is unnecessary by doing such a thing? Many for whom it is meant hate us anyway, and this is just more fuel to show us in a bad light.
Best,
Jerry
{C'mon guys, the topic of discussion is too important to squander on "my religion is the one true religion" shouting matches.}
That is not the issue. The issue is right and wrong in the area of morals that should be furthered or tolerated. To picture a *****, or whatever it is called, is an image that cannot further our cause, but instead will offend some who will be sidetracked as to what the real issue is.
It may very well give us the image of a bunch of folks who are crude, and vulgar, and who do not care what they foist on others including children. There would be some truth in that conclusion as evidenced by this thread.
I think that is more important than keeping such an image. One who is creative can do much better than that. Why offend anyone if it is unnecessary by doing such a thing? Many for whom it is meant hate us anyway, and this is just more fuel to show us in a bad light.
Best,
Jerry
Jerry...
In truth, I wasn't really offended, just making a point.
I live my life by three rules:
a)Don't lie.
b)Don't steal.
c)Never kick a dog that ain't bigger that you.
After that, it's negotiable. Now, if y'all will excuse me, me and the Ol' Lady are gonna play a few games of naked Twister with a lady Friend.
Biker
In truth, I wasn't really offended, just making a point.
I live my life by three rules:
a)Don't lie.
b)Don't steal.
c)Never kick a dog that ain't bigger that you.
After that, it's negotiable. Now, if y'all will excuse me, me and the Ol' Lady are gonna play a few games of naked Twister with a lady Friend.
Biker
skinnyguy
Member
Biker, just remember to keep your gun holstered...
fjolnirsson
Member
Ya know, Biker....
I frequently decline to respond here on THR, because I find you've already been there, and have written my thoughts so well I have nothing left to add...
Get out of my head!
I like the poster, Oleg. I think it makes a strong point, as evidenced by the arguments on this thread.
I frequently decline to respond here on THR, because I find you've already been there, and have written my thoughts so well I have nothing left to add...
Get out of my head!
I like the poster, Oleg. I think it makes a strong point, as evidenced by the arguments on this thread.
Warbow
Member
I like it, but also think the text could be rearranged. Possibly have "A Felony..." above the images and "...in Chicago" and "...in Texas" under each one.
Either way, it's good because it grabs attention and is memorable.
Either way, it's good because it grabs attention and is memorable.
XavierBreath
Member
This thread has degenerated into a "my God/view is better than your God/view" slugfest. I have asked repeatedly that the critique in this thread stay focused on Oleg's poster, and not each other. Too many members do not seem to think that is important. Guess what, it is. The ad hominem attacks just stopped.
I really have to wonder just what some members are thinking, that they would disrespect each other with comments like the ones above.
I really have to wonder just what some members are thinking, that they would disrespect each other with comments like the ones above.
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