common round before 1910 for wheel guns???

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phantomak47

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This is a broad and strange question, but I need to know what the common round of the wheel gun , probally in Smith and Wesson was from 1870 to 1910 ?

From what I read it was probally a .32, I am by no means a wheelgunner but learning!!!
 
Hi Phantom...

Good post, Phantom!!
I think cartridges were still sorta "transitioning" between black powder and "smokeless" powder for some of that time frame.
Early in that time span I think the most common rounds were 45 and 44 45, some of them black powder and some "modern" brass cases still loaded with black powder, and some of them the cases loaded with "smokeless" powder.
I think you may be right about the 32, and possibly 38s later in that time frame.
I'm sure someone who knows more than I do about it will be along shortly and educate us both. :D
 
S&W chamberings?

The 44s and 45s are today the most famous of yesteryear's chamberings, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn the 32s or 38s were actullay better sellers as pocket guns.
 
.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32-20 were, .38 S&W were all popular during the period, as were a number of similar and now-forgotten cartridges here and in Europe. .38 Special was around as well, though had not yet eclipsed the .38 S&W. In larger frames the .44's and .45 Colt were popular, along with an array of now-moribund big bore rimfires that were very popular in "bulldog" style pocket revolvers. "Cartridges of the World" is a good source of information on these.
 
The pocket guns did indeed outsell the .44's by a wide margin, and the only .45 S&W made was for the army. Their big .44's were in short supply on the frontier because much of the time they were filling major contracts from foreign governments.

During the 1870's rim-fire cartridges (.22 short and .32) were still popular, but by the middle '70's they were mostly replaced with two cartridges that we still have with us. They are the .32 S&W and .38 S&W - both centerfires.

In 1899 S&W introduced the .38 Special, and at about the same time, the .32 S&W Long. Both were popular well before 1910.
 
It's an absolutely fascinating period in small arms history. For one thing, there were few laws against CCW even in Europe. As a result, the little break-top pocket revolvers were probably the most widespread concealed firearms ever made. Folks didn't seem to feel the need for much firepower either. Most of the popular rounds were underpowered by today's standards. .38 Special and .32-20 were considered extremely powerful, and people felt perfectly safe with firearms most today would scoff at.

What's the skiivy on the 32-20 ??
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It will cut you half in two, and all the doctors in Hot Springs sure can't help you none.
 
The .32-20 was introduced in 1882 for the Model 1873 Winchester. It was one of the group of cartridges known as "Winchester Center Fire (WCF)" rounds, some of whose other members were the .44 WCF (.44-40), .38 WCF (.38-40), and .25 WCF (.25-20). The second number referred to the the black powder load in grains.

Even though it was originally intended for the Model 1873, it became a popular caliber in the Model 1892. It and the .25-20 were commonly considered "eastern" guns and used for varmint hunting. Lacking a .32 cartridge more powerful than the .32 S&W, some revolver makers (includig S&W) chambered their guns for the .32-20, even after the .32 S&W Long came out. In general, it was a good revolver round, but caution needs exercised to ensure that ammunition loaded for rifles is not used in revolvers.

Also, many of the Spanish S&W copies were chambered for the .32-20, and those guns should not be fired with anything.

Jim
 
Old cartridges

There were quite a few. Both S&W and Colt had rounds with their names on them. Some were interchangable, others were not. And the words "short, long, extra long, New Police, Special, etc. were on the ends of the names.

Cartridges of the World was mentioned, and is the standard reference for most of us. 95% of cartidge questions, the answers will be in that book.

Today's guns are much more efficient, but actuall kill fewer of the people shot than the guns of yesterday. Before penecillin and x-rays, most gunshots were ultimately fatal. The most feared gun in the old west was the .41 Rimfire derringer. Just enough power to go halfway through a man. The old outside lubricated bullet carried all kinds of stuff into the wound. It was a sure killer (they said), but unless you were VERY lucky, you could take a week or two to die!
 
I know that I use to hear my dad talk about the .32 S&W Long being a
"police caliber". His time frame must have been between 1910-1930,
cuz when I came along in 1947 the .357 magnum was in high demand
folks tell me. I know that dad sold off two Colts in .32 caliber, because
he was worried that I might accidentally stumble across them.:uhoh: :)
 
Teddy Roosevelt got the S&W Regulation Police adopted by NYPD when he was police commissioner. I don't recall if it were in .32 S&W L or .38 S&W.

I figure that in the pre-antibiotic days, a penetrating hit with about anything could be a death sentence, so calibers lacking in impact would still have a lot of psychological "stopping power" against criminals. You could usually get by with a .32 as long as you were not facing ignorant savages or motivated enemy troops.
 
Teddy Roosevelt got the S&W Regulation Police adopted by NYPD when he was police commissioner. I don't recall if it were in .32 S&W L or .38 S&W.
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Nope... The revolver was Colt's New Police, developed with the NYCPD in mind. It was likely chambered to use the .32 Long Colt cartridge. Smith & Wesson's Regulation Police model was introduced in 1917.
 
Well from all the .41 Long Colts I see from the period 1910-1878, it sure must've been popular! I think it is a dismal caliber, but I KNOW the old timers swore by it!:confused:
 
The revolver was Colt's New Police, developed with the NYCPD in mind. It was likely chambered to use the .32 Long Colt cartridge.
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What I get for going on vague recollections.
T.R. was police commissioner some time around 1890, and that is about the only gun that meets the description.
 
Don't forget the series of Colt revolvers starting in 1889 with a swing out cylinder chambered for the 38 Long Colt. The 1892 version was adopted as the US Army revolver, replacing the 1873 45 cal. The cartridge did not do well in the Phillipines leading to the adoption of the 45 ACP and 1911 pistol. The 38 Long Colt cartridge was modified by S&W in 1899 by lengthening it and increasing the black powder charge and thus creating the 38 special.
 
.32

"Nope... The revolver was Colt's New Police, developed with the NYCPD in mind. It was likely chambered to use the .32 Long Colt cartridge. Smith & Wesson's Regulation Police model was introduced in 1917." I've read numerous times that one of Roosevelt's main reasons for picking this revolver and round was to dispatch injured animals in the city. - Mac
 
Here is a picture of a .38 S&W Topbreak and my Grandad's S&W first model hand ejector, .32 S&W long, made in 1898.
picture.jpg

They will both still shoot.
 
The most accurate was considered the 44 Russian which was popular and was made for many years until the introduction of the 44 special.
 
Target rounds of yesteryear

While the 44 Russian is well known as a target round it was probably bested by the 32-44 S&W Target and 38-44 S&W Target (Not to be confused with the 38-44 High Speed, an entirely different cartridge.) These were developed at the end of the black powder area and were chambered in the S&W 44 tip up frame. They were like the Nagent round in that the bullet was seated entirely inside the case. The case mouth estneded to the mouth of the chamber, thus eliminating the the effect of the bullet passing through the first forcong cone in the chamber and leaving only the forcing cone in the barrel to contend with, reducing bullet distortion.

These cartridges are not well known today and are not mentioned in my earlier CotW and are confused with the 38 Special and 32 S&W in my later edition. The 38-44 target uses a different diameter bullet than the 38 Special and of course would not chamber in a 38 Special or a 357 mag.
 
I read that Walter Winans went back to .44 Russian after trying the .38-44 he himself talked S&W into building. I dunno if the Bennet brothers stuck with the .32-44 that they pushed to have made.

The .38-44 is not hard to get shooting, I use .357 Maximum brass trimmed to cylinder length and .38 Special bullets. Both a little undersize but the brass is strong and doesn't bulge much at target load levels and a cast .358" bullet will take .360" rifling well enough for the old gun to get some exercise.

I don't know about the .32-44. It needs something like cut off .32 Ideal brass (available) and a .323" bullet. From a Nambu mould, maybe?
 
Not to be contrary, but the 32-44 and 38-44 S&W targets rounds did not extend into the barrel like the Russian Nagant. If they did, how did the cylinder turn? The Russian has a "reciprocating" cylinder that moves forward to insert the case mouth into the barrel and then moves back for rotation. The S&W's do not have this feature. I have owned and shot several of these guns and they are tackdrivers, even by todays standards. The S&W 320 Revolving Rifle also uses the long case/flush seated bullet configration.
My understanding of the reason for the cylinder length case and flush seated bullets in the Smith's was to protect the bullet from any handling damage before it was fired.

Dean
 
cast .358" bullet will take .360" rifling
Click to expand...

I see quite a few Lyman-Ideal 360271 bullet moulds on ebay and they seldom bring very much. Would be excellant for this gun.

It needs something like cut off .32 Ideal brass (available) and a .323" bullet
Click to expand...

I just picked up an Ideal 32359 bullet mould that casts a .323 diameter 115 grain bullet. Now I know what its for!!

Three weeks ago I picked up a Colt Army Special 32-20 DA revolver with a 6" barrel made in 1920 and a Colt 1878 Frontier in 45LC with a 3 digit serial number. Then last weekend I picked up a Colt 1889 Navy 4.5" in 38 Colt. The Navy is serial #8. I am not much on shooting old guns but the 32-20 is very tempting. Its in very good condition. The Navy is tempting too, as it is in great condition (was refinished at one time though), but bullet moulds are hard to come by for the heeled 38 Colt. I had two, but sold both. I do notice there is a guy on ebay that sells cast bullets for it, but I will probably trade the gun off before I shoot it. I should add that I have next to nothing in all three guns!!:D
 
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