Completely 3d-printed handgun done on cheaper printer

[mgmorden]

Found this interesting. A lot of people of stated during discussions about Defense Distributed's "Liberator" pistol that it was produced on an industrial grade machine not the cheaper machines used by many hobbyists.

Another group of hobbyists has taken DD's plans and created a working gun on a cheaper hobbyist printer called a Lulzbot that cost only $1725.

There article here has more info and has some neat video of them firing it (by string from a rest, but successfully ):

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...with-cheap-3d-printer-fires-nine-shots-video/

 

[Drail]

I blame Gaston G. for this silliness. "Well sure, we can make a firearm from plastic." I'll bet that limp wristed jams will be the least of your problems. I absolutely do believe that a U.S. citizen ought to be able to manufacture anything in his shop without the Govt. needing to check your books or your inventory or require you to buy a "license" from them.

 

[TheGloriousTachikoma]

I still want someone to test one of these plastic barrels at 10 and 25 yards for accuracy and chronograph for velocity.

 

[macadore]

I still want someone to test one of these plastic barrels at 10 and 25 yards for accuracy and chronograph for velocity.

I want someone to put 1,000 rounds through one and report back.

 

[mgmorden]

I want someone to put 1,000 rounds through one and report back.

The Wright Brother's first flight lasted only 12 seconds. Give em time .

 

[gym]

It's interesting, but can only go so far with todays materials, I remember 50 yrs ago, kids making zip guns out of various things, that did basically the same thing. Until they can make a reliable semi auto weapon, it's just a curiosity item. Also you need the printer which costs more than the gun does, so right now I don't see the fuss.
Even with lowers, if you can pick them up at a show, or privately for 50-100 bucks, I can't see the reason to make one that has a limited use, and may blow up in your face.
I "get" the idea of what it may lead to, but it's a little early to get too exited about firing a 1 shot gun.
You still need barrels and slides made from metal to make a real working reliable gun. This is IMO over rated.

 

[Skribs]

I've been considering a 3D printer (when I have the funds for it) for other reasons. If you can do firearm parts in addition to whatever else you want, then it's just a bonus. The printer is expensive, but the plastic is dirt cheap.

 

[Sam1911]

If you're looking at this as a purely performance-valued item, i.e: is it a good gun?, this is no big deal.

If you can see this as a tactical nuke for gun rights freedom in the information age, then it is rather a big deal.

The Wright Bros. analogy was beautifully apt.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

The rifling that Joe added to the barrel is designed to skirt the National Firearms Act, which regulates improvised weapons and those with smooth-bored barrels.

Does this mean that someone can't build a gun with a smooth bore? I thought Cody Wilson's gun didn't have a rifled barrel.

 

[Manco]

If you're looking at this as a purely performance-valued item, i.e: is it a good gun?, this is no big deal.

Right, although it is very good at revealing how many non-gun-enthusiasts view things. For example, they think it is novel that a lethal weapon could be made so easily in one's garage, while my view is that hardly anything in my garage (e.g. ordinary tools from the hardware store, cars) is not already a lethal weapon. Of course, they're thinking more specifically in terms of projectile launchers, but zip guns that are at least as effective aren't difficult to make from readily available generic parts and materials, with no requirement for an expensive 3D printer. There is also the concern that criminals would take advantage of this technology, but why would they bother when they could make a zip gun or easier yet obtain a real and potentially far more lethal gun illegally on the black market?

All of this helps explain, by the way, why many people unwittingly buy into the false notion that gun control saves lives. They actually think that the existing 3D-printed pistols represent a new threat to civilized society, when in reality they make no difference, in and of themselves, whatsoever. It's mind-boggling how naive so many people--adults who have to survive in the real world--can be, and how much smarter and practical criminals can be--we've crossed over into a weird and not-so-wonderful kind of Wonderland.

If you can see this as a tactical nuke for gun rights freedom in the information age, then it is rather a big deal.

Yes, it leverages the First and Second Amendments in mutual support against government infringement, with potentially broad ramifications, while not endangering the public in any way. This is all about ideas and is a prime opportunity to educate both government and the public in what it means to live in a free country--when people raise concerns like those mentioned above, we should address them respectfully every chance we get. It certainly will be interesting to see how this all pans out, and how much, if anything, it will help or hurt our cause (I'm thinking that it will more likely help in the long run).

 

[gym]

If that's the one in the article, then he did manage to make it with rifling in it. Just so it was legal.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the implications of this on many levels, it's just that many folks are assuming that soon we will be able to print out entire working "Glock" type guns. Not so much on Gun websites "they are too knowledgeable for that, but the folks who are trying to take our rights away, "the are using this as just another talking point to pass more legislation against our best interests.

 

[NickEllis]

I believe Cody Wilson applied for a Class III manufacturer license.

 

[WardenWolf]

What's most likely to pass is limitations on the qualities and types of 3d printers that an individual can possess before they need a special license, and / or requirements that printer software logs and submits all files printed to a government database, essentially outlawing open source 3d printer software. Or we'll see a combination thereof, where individuals may not possess high-end 3d printers and commercial ones at places like Staples must submit all designs for review.

 

[Manco]

What's most likely to pass is limitations on the qualities and types of 3d printers that an individual can possess before they need a special license, and / or requirements that printer software logs and submits all files printed to a government database, essentially outlawing open source 3d printer software. Or we'll see a combination thereof, where individuals may not possess high-end 3d printers and commercial ones at places like Staples must submit all designs for review.

I expect the federal government's reaction will be to further infringe on our rights, as it almost always is. Then there will be lawsuits filed challenging the constitutionality of such laws with respect to the First Amendment. We could view this as allies opening a second related front in our "war" against unconstitutional government infringement of our rights.

 

[Sam1911]

Does this mean that someone can't build a gun with a smooth bore? I thought Cody Wilson's gun didn't have a rifled barrel.

A HANDGUN with a smooth bore is classified as a Title II "Any Other Weapon."

You can build a shotgun, just not a pistol shotgun. You can build a handgun, just not a smoothbore handgun.

Of course, UNLESS you first register it as an NFA Title II firearm.

 

[Sam1911]

I believe Cody Wilson applied for a Class III manufacturer license.

Just for accuracy, that would be a "Special Occupational Tax, Class 2," for NFA firearm manufacturers. "Class 3" is the tax paid by NFA firearm dealers.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

A HANDGUN with a smooth bore is classified as a Title II "Any Other Weapon."

You can build a shotgun, just not a pistol shotgun. You can build a handgun, just not a smoothbore handgun.

Of course, UNLESS you first register it as an NFA Title II firearm.

Thanks Sam.

 

[grter]

Face facts these printers and the quality of the materials they produce are only going to get better and less expensive in time.

Yes I do belive that glock type pistols will eventually be made on these devices and I can foresee a new set of laws and resources being devoted to restricting their capabilities and use that will no doubt deal a bad blow to those who have legitimate use for these printers.

Yes people can make home made guns other ways but with this you don't need even the crudest machining skills, just the ability to operate a printer and assemble a simple device (not any harder than putting a puzzle or plastic model together perhaps easier.)

The program can emailed and spread on the internet like wildfire. I can picture a new black market firearms industry using this technology. It would make current gun control registration laws total unenforcable nonsense which it is not far from anyway.

But don't fear this will not cause the end of the civilized world in any way.

After all it is not the common man that stores enough nukes in silos to destroy the world more than once over and I doubt restrictions of the technology would make any difference in curbing other governments full scale genocides of millions of people using whatever they have handy whether machetes, gas (easier and faster to make these days than even a printer etched popgun), bombs, firearms, etc.

Innocent children, babies, families and such that all suffer horrors under so called legitimate governments that hold seats in the United Nations will not be relieved in any way at all by locking up every average joe who likes to have guns or owns the wrong kind of printer that "could be used to make guns ."


It's amazing how stupid a portion of the public sector is.

 

[barnbwt]

but with this you don't need even the crudest machining skills

There's much more to it than that. The printer must be tuned to whatever material/batch of material you are using, it must still be checked for numerical accuracy (just like a CNC), the printed form must be cleaned of all support structures, the surface must be finished, all holes/threads will need to be added unless a very high-res printer is used, parts must be fitted to eachother as tolerances still stack up, and last but not least, the files themselves are unlikely to be perfect and bug-free as downloaded.

Basically, what the printer allows you to do is produce firearms without 3-phase power mills/lathes, or crummy little mini-mills that take forever and a ton of finesse to make half-way decent parts on. Making a gun by printing is easier--it is not yet easy.

Related note; I met a man just last weekend who was putting the finishing touches on a printed 10-22 receiver. Black, railed, tactical pistol grip stock--with a ghostly white RepRap receiver peeking out. Pretty cool, and seemed to work pretty well. But it still required finish work after coming out of the machine.

TCB

 

[gym]

I agree that it is not nearly as simple as we have been told, After working for the DOD in my younger years, very few things are simple that do a complicated job, There are probably many things that can go wrong, It's surely not an "easy bake oven".
The good thing is that they are using it to make prosthetic parts for people who were blown up and burnt up in Afghanistan and other places, I posted this before, they made an ear and a finger for a few folks a couple weeks ago. They can make a duplicate and cover the prosthetic with a copy of the persons actual original parts, "I guess from their photo's or the other ear or leg. Even disks and bones would be possible.
On the gun side I am thinking that suppressors will be a hot item with this Gizmo, that is a rather simple thing to make that can be attached with a threaded bracket, and a metal tube, that can be bought in a Home Depot.
Because of legal reasons, I am sure no one is talking about it, but I would bet that someone has tried it.
Just like Hacking websites where you can find movies and applications, there will be sites online where the blueprints will be available for just about anything imaginable, from bootleg cell phone cases to plates for counterfeiting money, "I saw that on a TV show already". This is a double edged sword that can easily get out of control, making all sorts of copy's of things that will be difficult to tell real from forged, or lower halves of pistols like the FN, or a Glock, can that work well enough to become a problem?, If the serial number is on the frame and a slide can be purchased from a hundred different places, is this a problem for the Govt. going forward, and would it function?It should be interesting to watch. If they can get the slides and barrels, or just forge them, if it is possible, it would be taken much more seriously .
I am just throwing out some ideas, just to see what is actually possible now and in the near future. If a real pistol can be copied then I can see the Government being worried, because the rest of the parts would for a time at least be available to purchase although illegal to make, Criminals don't care about laws, which might become a legitimate problem.

 

[backbencher]

I'm hoping Cody will print a rather long chambered .45" Colt w/ a plastic rifled bbl on his next go 'round. .410" should make good snake medicine, and I doubt the plastic rifling will bother the shot all that much.

 

[Skribs]

I'm sure in time the manual requirements for finishing the product will slowly go away, and eventually we'll have something that works like Star Trek replicators. I don't think I'm going off topic when I point out that these were used for much more than weapons - food, engine parts, replacement organs, etc. were all created in these, and I'm sure one day (maybe a hundred years or so in the future) we'll have all of this. Standing in the way for gun control means those things that the anti-gunners would probably like (easy way to feed the masses, medical breakthroughs, etc) would be hindered as well.

I agree - this is becoming a 1st amendment issue (and arguably 4th and 5th), not just 2A. I just hope that the other people don't do what we've done in the past. "I don't need to print a gun, so I don't care if they store my projects on an ATF database."

Manco, that's my argument against UBCs. Why put a restriction on guns when you'll let someone around power tools and children?

 

[Mk VII]

It would make current gun control registration laws total unenforcable nonsense which it is not far from anyway.

Just like those unenforceable laws on drugs which they keep trying to enforce anyway?

 

[Bruno2]

Also keep in mind they have printed magazines as well. So you are going to ban hi cap mags? Good luck with that. I have a few programs where I can print as many as I want.

 

[silicosys4]

Here is a video of the chief of police of New South Wales imploring everyone not to try such dangerous tomfoolery, that the gun will in fact explode in your face...and then a video of a liberator exploding.

"NSW Police Commissioner warns of dangers of 3D guns .
..New South Wales Police downloaded Liberator and printed it. Commissioner Andrew Scipione warns of dangers of 3D guns. Movie shows how 3D printed gun explode when used."

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e6_1369399875

It definitely looks like they printed it out of the crappiest materials they could possibly get their hands on, and probably loaded it with a 9mm instead of a .380, just to make sure it went kB.

Aaaaand let the campaign of misinformation and propaganda begin.