Concealed Carry In A Patrol Car In Ohio
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Good Ol' Boy
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Seems like it would be an obvious answer, and I imagine in most locals it is, but since you got me wondering I looked up my own counties app for a ride along.
Basic Rules for a Ride-Along:
• The proper attire for all Ride-Alongs will be “Professional.” No exceptions. (No jeans, no BDU’s, no tennis shoes, no non-collar shirts, etc.)
• No weapons or recording devices are to be brought on a Ride-Along.
• Dress for the weather.
This seems like it would be pretty common and I can understand why.
I realize I did not answer your specific question but you should be able to Google your county/city's PD ride along and find an answer. That's all I did and a PDF popped up of the application for a ride along from my counties website.
Basic Rules for a Ride-Along:
• The proper attire for all Ride-Alongs will be “Professional.” No exceptions. (No jeans, no BDU’s, no tennis shoes, no non-collar shirts, etc.)
• No weapons or recording devices are to be brought on a Ride-Along.
• Dress for the weather.
This seems like it would be pretty common and I can understand why.
I realize I did not answer your specific question but you should be able to Google your county/city's PD ride along and find an answer. That's all I did and a PDF popped up of the application for a ride along from my counties website.
mdThanatos
Member
My PD is the same as what Good Ol' Boy posted. Either call your PD/SO directly or see if they have it online.
It's not very likely I'd get an accurate answer if I was to ask a particular police or sheriff's dept. I'd probably be told what their department policy is but not what the actual state law is, if there is one. The reason I ask this question is because my brother did a ride along recently and the officer told him that it was against state law. It's quite possible that he was right but as he did not provide a relevant source and since, in my experience, police officers are generally terrible sources for info on firearms laws, I thought I'd ask here. Googling it brings up page after page of links related to carrying in a personal vehicle which, of course, is not helpful in this case.
IANAL and even if I was it would be extremely doubtful I would be versed in all state laws.
A quick Google brought up the pamphlet "Ohio Concealed Carry Laws and License Application" from the Ohio AG's Office. Page 10 lists "Forbidden Carry Zones". It lists police stations and sheriff offices and
"Government facilities that are not used as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, rest facility, and are not a court house or building or structure in which a courtroom is located".
It would seem to me that last definition, although it specifically doesn't list a police car, could cover a police car.
It would also seem reasonable for a police agency to have a rule of no CCW during a ride along.
A quick Google brought up the pamphlet "Ohio Concealed Carry Laws and License Application" from the Ohio AG's Office. Page 10 lists "Forbidden Carry Zones". It lists police stations and sheriff offices and
"Government facilities that are not used as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, rest facility, and are not a court house or building or structure in which a courtroom is located".
It would seem to me that last definition, although it specifically doesn't list a police car, could cover a police car.
It would also seem reasonable for a police agency to have a rule of no CCW during a ride along.
Twiki357
Member
I can’t speak to Ohio state law, but every police and sheriff department I’ve had contact with prohibited a ride-a-long from being armed by department policy.
I guess I'd disagree on that one, although you could be right. The only mention in that section of anything related to motor vehicles is a parking facility and it specifically exempts that area from the prohibition on carrying. Going strictly off of that section it would seem more likely that it is legal. I'm intimately familiar with most of the little nuances of concealed carry here in Ohio. I'm a concealed carry instructor and I'm religious about giving students accurate information. This question hasn't come up in a class before but it's a possibility, so I'd like to have the info.
That depends on the person doing the ride along I think. I did one with a department near me and the officer asked me ahead of time if I was carrying. I said yes and all he said was "good" and "what do you carry"? The difference between that and my brother's experience was that in my case the officer knew me. Anyway, that wasn't my question. I'm curious if there's an actual state law about it, not just department policy.
Sav .250
Member
Your asking for opinions? Ask the Police.........
lemaymiami
Member
In my career (22 years in south Florida) I often encouraged citizens to do a ride along and always thought it was a great idea (particularly for any young man or woman considering getting into policing). In my area, the day I came out of the academy there were 27 departments (Dade county) for local enforcement - not counting state or federal opportunities so a wide variety of working circumstances between the various agencies....
All of that said, why would anyone want to be armed while doing a ride along? If I heard of any potential candidate that made that request -they'd be getting a good bit of extra scrutiny before I'd be approving them for either just a ride or as a potential hire.....
All of that said, why would anyone want to be armed while doing a ride along? If I heard of any potential candidate that made that request -they'd be getting a good bit of extra scrutiny before I'd be approving them for either just a ride or as a potential hire.....
I'm not at all asking for opinions, although I knew I'd get a bunch. I'm asking if there's an Ohio state law addressing this issue. I'm also not asking what this or that departments policy is on the issue. It's fine if people want to post that here, but it doesn't address the question.
That's kind of an odd question to ask on a firearms forum. I'd want to carry on a ride along for the same reason I carry everywhere else. To be able to more efficiently defend myself and others.
Jim Watson
Member
Your POC is the state attorney general. But department policy might be more limiting than the law.
We don't have "ridealongs" hereabouts, we have "reserve deputies" who are indistinguishable in dress or armament from county employee deputies. A reserve friend was the winner in a shootout with a suspect, in fact.
We don't have "ridealongs" hereabouts, we have "reserve deputies" who are indistinguishable in dress or armament from county employee deputies. A reserve friend was the winner in a shootout with a suspect, in fact.
Just to clarify something else, I wasn't necessarily only asking about ride alongs. Say for example you're involved in a wreck or you're a witness to one. It's nasty weather out and the cop invites you to sit in the car to write your statement. Is it illegal to get in the car with your gun on? Especially if you're just a witness you don't actually have a legal obligation to inform the cop that you're carrying in that case.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Honestly, even if solid law is found and quoted on this, it seems to me that we've wandered into a very good example of "Is it legal" Vs "Is it a good idea"
Time to start thinking outside the box guys. There may not be a state law saying that it's illegal to have a gun in a police car, but I bet there is one saying that if you sign a sworn statement saying you won't carry weapons during your ride along, and you do, then you've broken the law.
Time to start thinking outside the box guys. There may not be a state law saying that it's illegal to have a gun in a police car, but I bet there is one saying that if you sign a sworn statement saying you won't carry weapons during your ride along, and you do, then you've broken the law.
That's certainly possible. When I rode with my buddy the statement I signed was simply a release of liability and did not mention weapons carry.
Jim Watson
Member
Again, nobody can tell you the law except the attorney general or a lawyer well versed in firearms.
But I doubt any working cop would allow it if he became aware of you wearing a gun.
More like "Let me hold that for your protection." Whose protection?
State law or not a police car is a cop's office. I'd say it's a case of his or hers house so it's their rules. I'm sure you cover that in your CCW classes. Does Ohio law permit you to carry on someone else's property if they say no?
The cop knew you on that ride along. That's a big difference. Thats probably the exception not the rule. I'd say cops usually don't know the citizens who go on ride alongs.
Someone mentioned about sitting in a cop's car after an accident. That's pretty common in inclement weather.
I'd say even if there is no duty to notify police you're armed you should anyway. I've been on both sides of this. As a cop I'd ask to see their carry permit. As a civilian I took my permit out before informing him when I got rear ended. Not required by law but a way to avoid an incident in both situations.
If you're a CCW instructor I would think an email or letter to the AG's Office should provide the correct answer.
You are correct, Ohio law does not allow people to carry on others property if they are prohibited either verbally or in writing not to do so by the owner or manager. That's not specifically applicable in this case though since the officer does not own the patrol car. Local government agencies in Ohio are prohibited by state law from regulating firearms in any way other than their discharge. The city of Cleveland, for example, would love to prohibit firearms carry in city parks, but it is illegal for them to do so.
Agreed.
Agreed. It's not a bad idea to let him/her know. I realize I'm starting to sound like a broken record here but my question is about state law or lack thereof, not the opinion of myself, anyone here, the police officer, his/her department or anyone else. Not saying opinions are not important but I'd really like to know what the actual law is or isn't.
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first of all in the state of ohio you have to notify any LE if you have the firearm on you and its also a good idea even if you don't to let them know ccw at a traffic stop but I don't have it on me. I was in a very bad wreck and was able to walk away. Ohio state highway patrol responded and ive got a 12ga shotgun in the truck and a M&P9 fullsize on my hip under my coveralls as I was going hunting. he pulls up and goes to get out and I say wait Im ccw. I also worked as an armed SO at section 8 housing and I was a full time Armored car guard. he said okay no prob. I said want it in the truck and he said no too many people walking around seeing how it was a 4 car crash he wanted me to have it. I think the whole this is what I do for work eased it a little. at the end of 2hours interviewing people and what not he asks me to come to his car and puts his hand out and say I want to thank you for telling me and assuring me you have police firearms training. the gentleman I just interviewed as a witness was packing a 1911 in a shoulder holster I asked him for his license and when he got his wallet I seen the gun. the man said well I'm not being pulled over or anything I didn't think to tell you. Ohio law states any contact with LE you must announce!
on a side note you must go into the police station first before the ride along and carrying in there is a felony charge I believe and takes away your license. its also not smart to play hero and put yourself in a situation where you will need it. bad calls you stay in the car or outside.
That is incorrect. Look at page 9 of the Ohio Attorney General Concealed Carry Laws Booklet. A citizen has no legal duty to inform unless he/she was stopped for a law enforcement purpose. It's not just any contact with police. That is very specifically spelled out. The highway patrol officer was wrong.
laws are written where it has 4 different interpretations. last I read about 4-5yrs ago is contact with LE. anyways its a good idea because you can be arrested and have to pay an attorney to fight it. trust me I've almost been jerked out of my truck because of it. got pulled over didn't have it on me cop was so pissed that he didn't even run my plate before yelling at me for doing the speed limit in a snow storm. dispatch comes back with Ohio cow and I'm told get out of the car for not telling him. I tried to explain I didn't have to but he didn't want to hear it. I called his chief and filed a complaint and was told its a good idea too just so there is no surprise. city of Lorain got me too while coming down a steep hill and tried the same thing. you can be arrested for anything and then have to pay a lot of money to free yourself its not worth it to play cowboy. sit your butt in the car and watch. Not trying to be rude or anything but I've done ride along, used to work with a lot of LEO's and even when I was an armed guard and been through the private police training that ohio offers and then some I would always let them do their thing when it came down too it. I'm pretty sure ohio did away with the ccw holder can defend another person too so you shooting a bad guy because he shot someone could turn on you in a heart beat.
To be honest your posts are a little hard to follow, but I'll take a stab at a response based on what I think you're saying. You seem to be making a number of assumptions based on outdated information or guess work. Last you read was 4-5 years ago? You probably should keep more up to date than that if you're going to carry a concealed handgun.
The fact that a cop got upset at you because he had an incorrect understanding of the law is not legitimate grounds for him to arrest you. Can you cite a case where a civilian was arrested and prosecuted just for that? I'm not aware of any.
Ohio did away with a ccw holder legally defending another person? Again, you need to do some more research. Basically, that's utter nonsense.
to put it bluntly I'm saying don't be a cowboy and let the police do their work. absolutely no need to carry a hidden firearm on a ride along. what are you going to do if say the cop pulls on someone are you going to draw too? what if the suspect shoots the cop and backup arrives and shoots you because your not supposed to have a gun and now your considered a threat?
page 14 of the ohio attorney generals office website forbidden carry zones. "police stations" this means when you hit the police dept parking lot your in violation of the law.
page 15. you are required by law or can be charged with a 1st degree misdemeanor which the next step is felony 5 for not notifying. it states contact for LE purposes. ever gotten a ticket for rear ending someone? a traffic accident is law enforcement purposes. just because its not a theft or anything else doesn't mean its not LE purposes. if a cop stops you to talk to you about something its LE purposes.
I should have said that ohio was very vague in when you could defend another person and then reworded it to this copied directly from the attorney general page. how do you really know your protecting someone. its better to mind your own business. I get tested on this every year. you have to prove that person you shot because he was shooting at another person wasn't shooting that other person because they just stabbed them or what not. when I guarded millions of dollars I was asked what do we do if we walk into a bank or store robbery. I said nothing! unless that guns pointed at you mind your business and leave. why? its the law and clearly stated in the rule book you preach. you have to retreat not engage. why put yourself and others in harms way so you can whip out your ccw and drop some bad guy.
Defense of Others A person may defend another only if the protected person would have had the right to use deadly force in self-defense himself. Under Ohio law, a person may defend family members, friends, or strangers. However, just as if he were protecting himself, a person cannot use any more force than is reasonable and necessary to prevent the harm threatened. A defendant who claims he used deadly force to protect another has to prove that he reasonably and honestly believed that the person he protected was in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death and that deadly force was the only way to protect the person from that danger. Furthermore, the defendant also must show that the protected person was not at fault for creating the situation and did not have a duty to leave or avoid the situation. WARNING: The law specifically discourages citizens from taking matters into their own hands and acting as law enforcement. This is true even if you think you are performing a good deed by protecting someone or helping law enforcement. The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled that a person risks criminal charges if he interferes in a struggle and protects the person who was at fault, even if he mistakenly believed that person did not create the situation. In other words, if you misinterpret a situation and interfere, you may face criminal charges because your use of deadly force is not justified. If you do not know all the facts and interfere, you will not be justified to use force. It does not matter that you mistakenly believed another was in danger and not at fault.
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Of greater concern than risking criminal charges is the fact that you may be putting yourself and others in danger. If you use your handgun to interfere in a situation and an officer arrives on the scene, the officer will not be able to tell if you are the criminal or if you are the Good Samaritan. Ohio law does not encourage vigilantism. A license to carry a concealed handgun does not deputize you as a law enforcement agent. Officers are trained to protect members of the community, handle all types of situations, and enforce the law. Do not allow the license to carry a concealed handgun to give you a false sense of security or empowerment. Let law enforcement officers do their job. If you want to be a Good Samaritan, call the police. Conclusion: Self-Defense Issues If the defendant fails to prove any one of the three conditions for self-defense or defense of another, he fails to justify his use of deadly force. If the presumptions of deadly force in the home or vehicle are removed and the defendant is unable to prove that he did not create the situation or that the use of deadly force was reasonably necessary, he fails to justify his use of deadly force. Under either condition, if convicted, an individual will be sentenced accordingly.
my point about the cop is you can be arrested for anything they deem necessary and then you have to go to court and convince people your innocent. he swore up and down I had to tell him I had a ccw even if I didn't have a firearm on me. after I got him calmed down he said he was going to look into it and came back and told me I was luck I wasn't arrested that he checked into it but its still a good idea to notify so they don't get a surprise standing at the window of a stranger. I could see it now. you get pulled over a cop doesn't know the law because there are so many for them to know you cant know all the little details, that's for court to decide. he says step out for not notifying and you argue. I can see a charge of obstruction coming.
call your attorney, call the Ohio attorney general and let them know you plan on bringing a loaded firearm onto the property and possibly into the building of a police station cause your gonna back up the cop and let us know how that conversation goes.
I'm trying not to be a giant jerk about this but I used to work with guys that pulled this stuff all the time and it cost one guy a lot of headache. no need to put yourself in harms way when on a ride along so no need to sneak a gun into the car.
btw this is not legal advice its just an opinion.
Look, I asked a simple question. Is there a state law in Ohio that prohibits a civilian from carrying a concealed firearm in a police vehicle? I'm not asking about the opinion of some random cop on a power trip who is ignorant of the law. I'm fully aware that corrupt or ignorant police can cause issues for civilians. I'm not arguing that. The question was also not about bringing a weapon into a police station. I thought that was quite obvious. Also you are incorrect about carrying in the parking lot. As was discussed earlier in this thread, state law specifically exempts government parking facilities from the prohibition on carry.
look there is no getting through to you. I'm sorry but its things like these stupid arguments that give the good ones a black eye. exactly what are you getting at with your question? if your involved in a wreck and the police are called its now a law enforcement encounter because a possible crime was commited and you must notify. if you don't why? why not be a normal person and say hey look ccw what you want me to do. you seem to be well versed in the "law" so why are you asking? are you wanting to know for an accident or a ride along?
ride along is contact with LE for a LE purpose. accident is the same thing. I'm past the crazy cop thing I'm saying this is the biggest joke ive seen. be a responsible gun owner and ccw holder and notify. go ahead and take that gun onto a police dept property and see how that goes. you have to enter the building to meet the officer and go to the car so right there you committed a crime or you going to say oh wait let me go to my car and get my gun so I can save you.
there is a thing called the Ohio revised code. do some searches through it and you will see that whatever law you found about parking was watered down and the ORC will better explain it just like the contact with LE. things like that are vague and the ATT gen and orc can clear it up.
I'm done have a goodnight.
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