Concealed carry in NC not worth it?

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9mm+

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I am in the process of applying for a CC license in North Carolina and am wondering if the process is even worth it. For those that are not familiar with NC concealed carry laws, the list of places you *can't* take your weapon is longer than the list of places you can. The main issue you run into is having to take the weapon on and off depending on where you're going. The main culprit is going to dinner because most restaurants serve alcohol and CCW are *not* permitted where alcohol is sold and/or consumed. That narrows the universe pretty quickly and creates some logistical issues, mainly relegating the CCW to the car. It might prevent carjackings (assuming, of course, that you're in the car at the time of the attack), but it won't do anything for getting jumped to/from a restaurant or an evening out.

Don't get me wrong -- I am grateful that NC has a CC provision. For those living in states that do not, I feel your pain (having lived in a few of them myself)...

All of this makes me want to move to Utah or Vermont (hmmmmm, I might do that!). Perspectives from seasoned CC permit holders would be most welcomed...thanks!
 
NM currently has the same prohibition on carrying for alcohol serving restuarants for now, legislation is slowly working a 51 percent law. Anyways I carry everywhere else and just hide my gun in my truck when I go to a prohibited place. Not really a big deal if you have the right holster, not even a pain in the butt like you would think.
 
Thanks, Mags...much appreciated. I do hope that NC amends this (and I will do my best to actively protest the current provisions), but it's also good to hear that it may not be as much of a logistical issue afterall. Of course, NC has added a bunch of other places where CCW's can't be carried, so I will need to create a cheat sheet and keep it in the car so I don't forget.

(Also, I got a chuckle at the "Mags" explanation in your signature block. "Name squatters" are a real pain in the backside (I've had the same issue on other forums I post on).)
 
The permit is worth it. Actually carrying... well, that's up to you. Constantly disarming or plotted your trips to stay within the law may not be something you want to do. Personally, I like to drink while I'm out, so I rarely carry... but I keep a knife with me at all times, at least.

That said, the permit itself is completely worth it, because aside from giving you at least the option to carry, it eliminates the need for a pistol permit when purchasing handguns and can save you a lot of hassle. If you buy firearms more than a few times every century, it's worth the cost for that alone.

As another example, I regularly toss handguns into my range bag, and toss the range bag into my truck. Without a concealed carry permit, this would be illegal, and I would go to prison. If you have a gun in the car and your jacket/targets/yeti costume slides over it and partially conceals it, you can go to prison for that. etc.

Basically, the convenience and peace of mind it offers from a momentary lapse where you forget to "unconceal" your firearm is worth it all by itself, in my book.
 
It's been a while since I got my permit but as far as concealed carry in places sell/serve alcohol in NC, I think it only applies to establishments that serve alcohol. Ok to pack if they just sell. Otherwise you couldn't even walk into Krogers. But I could be wrong...
 
Good point, Still...a loaded and accessible weapon in your car or truck will get you in some really hot water unless you have a CC permit. There is a lot of peace of mind in that, for sure.

Shark, I re-read the Wake County Sheriff's guidelines and you're right -- it only applies to places where alcohol can be purchased AND consumed, not AND/OR. That is a very important distinction.
 
Virginia legislation has been vetoed by the governor for the past 2 years that would allow ccw in restaurants that serve alcohol. We don't have bars only restaurants that serve alcohol. The gov will be replaced this year (term limit) and both front runners say the will sign it into law.
 
Glad to see that VA's upcoming political elite have the good sense to enact some decent legislation.
 
I live in NC, and yes you must disarm before entering establishments where alcohol is sold AND consumed. I have an idea! FREE beer for patrons that are packing!

Seriously, leaving it locked in the truck in the parking lot is OK with me if I need a burrito and a Cerveza Tecate. It's not being able to even drive ON to a Post Office or School parking lot that's a pain... and that's not unique to NC. So. I avoid the PO and we homeschool. Anyone know if I'm legal in NC walking into a VFD to vote while armed?

Les
 
LOL, Les! Free beer will definitely skirt that issue~!

Good point regarding the PO's and schools...it's never easy to exercise our Second Amendment rights... :(
 
Just a Thought...

In medicine the three factors of alcohol, a dispute and a weapon are known as the "trauma triad". When combined, they lead to injury & death. I get the spirit of the law, trying to remove one of the factors (a weapon).

Would it not make more sense to simply make it a crime to consume alcohol while carrying? Much like DUI, carrying while intoxicated would result in the suspension or revocation of your ccw permit.
 
In NC it is illegal to carry concealed with any alcohol in your system. If your blood/alcohol is over 0.0%, open-carry rules apply.

Les
 
^ Yep and NC has that law as well. "Zero tolerance" while you are carrying concealed.

Edit: wrs beat me to it. lol
 
If driving into a N.C. PO parking lot concealed is a violation, I just learned something!
 
Any firearm, concealed, open, stored locked, in the trunk, whatever, is illegal in a PO parking lot... Anywhere in the US. You can mail one to or from your property though. IIRC...

Les
 
Good point, Still...a loaded and accessible weapon in your car or truck will get you in some really hot water unless you have a CC permit. There is a lot of peace of mind in that, for sure.

This bit isn't true. As long as the weapon is plainly visible, it is open carry, which is legal in NC.

Locked and loaded, uncovered, on the seat of the car is legal, permit or not. Not advisable, but legal.

The strangest thing about concealed carry is the weird overlaps where open carry is permissible, but concealed is not - You cannot carry concealed at a funeral (?!), a bank, or public protest, but you can open carry without issue at all of these. The public protest one probably comes from the Greensboro Massacre at the KKK demonstration, so I kind of understand that one, but where did the funeral come from? I can conceal at a wedding no issue but not a funeral? And wouldn't open carry cause a lot more drama at a bank than concealed?

Regarding alcohol, yep, that's the problem with current NC law. No dinners out with the family at most places if you want to conceal. You can open carry, though, with no issue, barring a "No Firearms" sign. It's all pretty silly, but it is what it is. To the Activism forum! :p
 
9mm+:

Ohio has pretty much the same setup - particularly for restaurants and bars. We also have a whole list of "buildings we paid for" that we can't carry in, and goofy stuff like "houses of worship", for which the "management" can allow carry.

The biggest problems are the restaurants and places where the Criminal and Terrorist Friendly don't want Law Abiding Citizens to be.... With the exceptions of places we must patronize (many hospitals, for example), you just go someplace else.

Meantime, getting the license DOES protect you going to & from the range, etc., and it keeps the numbers up! One of the arguments in OH was that "nobody would want one." About 100K CHL's later....

Regards,
 
All good points, guys, thanks. Despite the arcane nature of these laws and some overlap of open/concealed classifications, there is strength in numbers which is a great motivator to get a CC permit in NC. Get enough people on the bandwagon and they might be able to actually steer the darn thing...
 
They reasons to get it far outweigh the negatives IMO.As far as not being able to carry in certain places,If no one knows it is in your car(concealed of course)you are not in danger of being caught.My CC instructor(policeman)said when off duty he simply hid it in his car and no one is the wiser.Is it legal?No.Will anyone care?Only if you tell them.
 
Would it not make more sense to simply make it a crime to consume alcohol while carrying? Much like DUI, carrying while intoxicated would result in the suspension or revocation of your ccw permit.

It is already illegal in every state to recklessly discharge a firearm. Several states do not have these ridiculous restrictions regarding where not to carry, and I would bet they have a lower incidence of gun violence. What about drinking at home when guns are present? People must choose to be responsible; more laws will not help.
 
Get your cc permit, as stated before the more cc permits, the more the stats go up in our favor (pro second amendment). I got my conceled handgun permit a few months ago, my company started a job on a college campus, (no firearms), frustrating but on the weekends life is good. Plus, a lot of people are getting concealed carry that have never thought of even owning a gun much less carrying. Now they have a reson to pay attention to how our freedoms may or may not be protected by our elected officials.
So get your concealed handgun permit and enjoy it.
 
You will like having the license, especially when traveling to other states. In Tennessee, we cannot carry, openly or concealed, without a permit or risk a misdemeanor violation. We cannot even put one loaded on the seat openly or say the glovebox like in Georgia. I'm glad I have one because I travel quite a bit.
 
Several posters have stated that it is illegal to carry concealed in a Post Office.
Federal law does not prohibit lawful concealed carry in a PO.

From pages 380 and 381 of the Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law, published by Chief Ron Glidden and Atty. John Collins. This publication is used to train police officers at the Massachusetts State Police Academy.

Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law 11th Edition

Concealed Carry in the Post Office

18 U.S.C. §930

There is much public confusion on the legality of carrying a concealed firearm in a post office. The confusion is based in part on posters typically observed at federal buildings citing 18 U.S.C. § 930. Unfortunately, the posters do not mention the exception to the law that applies to those private citizens who lawfully carry handguns.

18 U.S.C. §930 Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in Federal Facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to –
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United
States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

For non-law enforcement personnel in Massachusetts, in order to fall within the exception to the law, two conditions have to be met. First, one has to be engaged in the “lawful carrying of firearms.” This means you cannot be a “prohibited person” such as a convicted felon, a fugitive from justice, or fall within any of the other categories that would prohibit one from lawfully purchasing or owning a firearm under federal law.

It also means that it must be legal for you to carry the firearm under any applicable federal, state, and local laws. For example if your license to carry is restricted to target and hunting, you would not be allowed to carry in a post office on the federal section. The second condition that has to be met for one to fall within the exception to the ban on carrying a firearm in a federal facility is that one must be carrying in the facility “incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.” One cannot be in the facility with intent to commit a crime, or while committing a crime, and fall within the exception.

A simple test of whether one may legally carry in a post office could involve answering four questions:
1. Is it illegal for me to carry a handgun on the street outside the post office?
2. Is there a state or local law prohibiting carry in a post office?
3. Am I violating the terms of my LTC by carrying inside a post office?
4. Am I going to commit a crime or engage in some unlawful activity once inside the facility?

If one answers “no” to all four questions, one falls within the exception to the federal ban on carrying in a federal facility. The answer to the first three questions seeks to resolve whether one is engaged in the “lawful carrying” of a firearm. The answer to the final question seeks to resolve whether one is carrying “incident to … lawful purposes.”

It is important to note that the term “Federal facility” does not include a federal court facility. Even with a valid concealed weapon or handgun license, it is a federal offense to bring a firearm into a federal court facility. Under this statue, the only persons who may lawfully carry in a federal court facility are federal, state, or local law enforcement officers on official duty, or a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if authorized to possess the firearm.

Addendum

The Code of Federal Regulations contains the following regulation (excerpted in pertinent part; full text from link):

39 C.F.R. 232.1 Conduct on Postal Property:
(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

However, looking further down the regulation, we see the following: (p) Penalties and other law.
(2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and regulations in this section while on property
under the charge and control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or imprisonment
of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed
to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations
applicable to any area in which the property is situated.
Regulations in the CFR have to be based on laws in the United States Code, must be consistent with them, and cannot supercede them. Section (p)(2) of the 39 CFR 232.1 recognizes this fact. That is, the CFR cannot abrogate applicable Federal law.

In so far as firearms are concerned, 18 U.S.C. § 930 (a) is essentially the same as 39 CFR 232.1 (l), except that the regulations do not contain the exception for lawful concealed carry contained in 18 U.S.C. § 930 (d) (3). But by its own terms, the regulations do not override the United States Code ("Federal law"), which does allows carrying a firearm in federal facility.

In other words, the CFR cannot trump the U.S.C., and the U.S.C. allows lawful concealed carry in a federal facility.

My Mass. LTC is issued "for all lawful purposes" so I carry in Post Offices.

Tinpig
 
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