Concealed Carry in Scrubs

[Pyro]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...armed-doctor-shoots-stops-pa-hospital-killer/
(if I remember correctly the doctor was fired for breaking hospital regulations)

I vote for the .22lr naa mini in an ankle holster or in your pocket.

 

[WC145]

I'm amazed at the number of people posting here that, 1. are ignoring the OP's question, and, 2. are under the impression that hospitals are somehow immune to violent crime.

To say that someone working in a hospital has nothing to worry about or that there is no possibility of something happening is just ignorant, especially when you have no idea of what their situation is or where they work. Everyone comes to, or are brought to, hospitals - victims, victimizers, the mentally ill, people on drugs, people seeking drugs, drunks, criminals and inmates, the pillars of society as well as the dregs. There is probably more potential for violent confrontation in a hospital than most other places.

And the truth of the matter is that most facilities do not have "company police" or even uniformed security, they rely on male staff and maintenance personnel to contain things until the cops show up and they aren't necessarily readily available. The town where the hospital I work is located has one cop on duty at any given time, maybe he'll be free when 911 is called and can respond immediately, maybe not. Take all of those factors into consideration and the idea of carrying a gun for protection doesn't seem so far fetched, and certainly no less necessary than carrying anywhere else.

BTW, I'm at work right now and wearing a S&W snubby on my ankle and I have a knife in my pocket, like everyday. I just did an EKG on a very nice lady in the ER. In another room 25 feet away from her is a person awaiting commitment for attempted suicide, they shot up their trailer last night while hallucinating. That person has a history of mental illness and illegal drug use, the only security is a nurse sitting in front of the room. Nothing bad could possibly happen, right?

 

[Odd Job]

I've carried in scrubs. It was a Baby Browning in a leather holster in the side pocket (of the scrub tunic). That's all I could carry without being detected. I carried that in an operating theatre whilst using X-ray equipment...
With an ankle holster you could probably get away with something slightly bigger

 

[Carne Frio]

I carried concealed, while wearing scrubs and lab coat,
the last 5 years before retiring. It was not prohibited by
my employer and many doctors carried. Most nurses had
handguns in the purses or backpacks. If you choose your
new home up here you should check with the employer.
My method was a J frame using a Barami hipgrip.

 

[Ryanxia]

Do scrubs have pockets (or could you add one)? I think a North American Arms PUG would be a good size to either pocket carry.

 

[Odd Job]

A scrub top usually has at least one pocket. The most common is one large pocket lower right hand side.
Some other tops have a small top pocket.
The trousers might have a small back pocket on the right.

In addition to this, there may be duplicate pockets on the inside (a lot of scrubs are reversible).

 

[bangswitch]

Like Odd Job said, most scrubs have a shirt pocket and a hip pocket, and reversible scrubs have them on inside and outside. Problem with pocket carry is, the weight of the carry makes the sheer material of scrubs sag.

I'd say either an ankle holster or a groin carry (Thunderwear) pouch would be the best bet for comfort and concealment.

 

[pps]

I worked in a California hospital that had a doctor killed by a patient who got mad that the doc refused to refill an order for pain killers. We also had prison inmates brought in on a routine basis.

I did not care what the hospital policy was. MY policy is that if I'm going to be shot, I refuse to allow the cause of my death to be from lack of ability to shoot back. I did not care about getting fired if caught.

That being said, my choice was pocket carry with a Nemesis holster with a 340PD. Very light gun, in a useful caliber. Now, I'm self employed, and not in a hospital setting, so I have a lot more carry options...but that combo worked well with scrubs.

 

[Wanderling]

In MI, hospitals are gun free zones and if you've been caught the 3rd time it's a 4 year felony.

If you don't like the law, fight it legally. If you pick & choose which ones to break, what's the difference between you and a common criminal ? I'm sure most of them also have good justification for their actions.

 

[pps]

California hospitals are NOT "gun free zones". Assuming you have a permit, and you get caught violating company policy, you can be dismissed from your job, and ordered to leave the private property (or else be guilty of trespassing). However, it is not a violation of the law.

 

[Grumulkin]

Like Odd Job said, most scrubs have a shirt pocket and a hip pocket, and reversible scrubs have them on inside and outside. Problem with pocket carry is, the weight of the carry makes the sheer material of scrubs sag.

That is why you have to carry a light gun. Even a few ounces makes a difference. That's a good reason for a Kel Tec P3AT.

Perhaps part of the problem is that some are using hospital supplied scrubs. If that's what you HAVE to use, I can see there could be a problem. There are scrubs available that have front pockets similar to jeans where a pistol in a pocket holster won't sag, bang around, etc. but you might have to buy them yourself.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

OTOH, there is one job where I would say carry is never worth it...

... don't carry if you're an MRI tech.

 

[khegglie]

Even a wallet sags scrubs pockets.

 

[Bobson]

Yep. Mine does, and there's not a whole lot in it.

I think SmartCarry and Ankle Carry are going to be the two best options, by far. I'll probably end up trying both.

 

[BSA1]

Get a gun you don't mind dropping on the floor.

Get a gun that you don't mind going into a Police evidence locker for a long time.

Update your life insurance policies.

Get enough gun. If you willing to lose your job for packing heat make it a big enough caliber to do the job.

Since you refuse to tell us what your job will be it is very hard to make a recommendation. If your job does not require patient contact such as working in the Lab, Building Services or Business Office you might consider a belly band holster.

Workplace violence seems common these days. So when armed security or Police response to a shooting call knowing firearms are not allowed inside the hospital and you are the first person they see with a gun well...

You should realize that with your decision to violate company policy you risk losing your conceal carry permit if you have one and possibly your medical certication. If you don't have a conceal carry permit then you could face criminal charges.

Maybe a hospital career isn't the best choice for you.

 

[Bobson]

BSA1:

I'm not sure why some of you are so persistent in making wild assumptions about hospital policy. I understand it may be the case that my employer will have a policy against employee carry; Heck, I understand that it probably will be the case. But to say that it will be the case is enormously presumptuous.

Additionally, I very clearly stated, multiple times and in multiple places, that I am not willing to violate policy: if my employer has a policy against employee carry, then I won't carry. It literally isn't possible for me to have made that more clear than I did. Some of you just aren't reading the thread; and for those who this applies to, I can't begin to understand why you would even take the time to post at all. You're wasting both your time and mine.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I worked in the medical field several years ago and I used a clip on holster and suspenders to hold up my scrub pants.

You can also lay out a few extra dollars for heavy duty scrub pants that come with belt loops

 

[Odd Job]

I think having your own scrubs is going to be a problem for several reasons:

1) It will be expensive. You'll have to buy more than one set. If your facility uses colour-coded scrubs to identify different kinds of workers, that's going to be an added cost to have it made up in that colour.
2) If you soil your custom scrubs at the start of the day, what are you going to do for the rest of the day? How are you going to carry?
3) People are curious. They will inevitably ask why you don't wear the hospital-issued scrubs and why you are taking soiled scrubs home to clean.

Oh and with regards to carry on the premises without permission, it all depends on the level of risk anticipated (with regards to the likelihood of having to use a firearm at work). For example there is a big difference between a small rural clinic and a large inner city hospital.
Also, the country plays a big part: the trauma unit where I worked in Johannesburg would be more dangerous than any of the units in the UK and USA also.

What I found in Johannesburg is that staff members didn't pitch up for work on day one, carrying a firearm. They generally only started carrying when they witnessed an incident or were told about an incident that had happened whilst they were employed.
A big factor when deciding whether to carry or not (against hospital policy) is an assessment of the general security of the hospital.

In my case I saw the security guards were armed with batons only, and goblins had unfettered entry into the trauma unit. The hospital did install security gates and a camera at the trauma unit and the trauma ward, but by then a patient had already been shot dead on the ward by his "brothers" who had come to visit him.

The same applies to the perceived threat to persons arriving and leaving by car. A well respected ENT surgeon was shot dead in his car as he was leaving the hospital. It was four goblins aged 17-19, they didn't even give him a chance to get out of the car, he was shot through the windscreen. His own colleagues tried to resuscitate him in the trauma unit but he died.

There have been shootings and assaults in the nurses residences and various other places on hospital property.
So against all that background information I made a decision to carry whether it was allowed or not.
As others have said it could have cost me my job, but the hospital administration would have had a hard time arguing against my personal safety concerns with the number of violent incidents on hospital premises being as high as it was.
So in my case it was a necessary move.

 

[Bobson]

I worked in the medical field several years ago and I used a clip on holster and suspenders to hold up my scrub pants.

You can also lay out a few extra dollars for heavy duty scrub pants that come with belt loops

Great call on suspenders; they could work (without anyone knowing, and therefore drawing attention to myself) by simply wearing the suspender between an undershirt and a scrub top. With a thin enough gun, and/or thicker than usual scrubs, pocket carry could quickly become feasible with suspenders to help support the pants. Also, I didn't know there were scrubs made with belt loops, so that's worth looking into, too.

Two excellent ideas I hadn't considered previously. Thank you.

 

[Bobson]

1) It will be expensive. You'll have to buy more than one set. If your facility uses colour-coded scrubs to identify different kinds of workers, that's going to be an added cost to have it made up in that colour.

Really, even if I drop $50 per set of scrubs, I wouldn't need more than 5-7 sets. In the long run, even if I replace em every year (and that's probably about twice as frequently as they would realistically need to be replaced), $350 a year on scrubs isn't a huge deal. I kinda pulled the $50/set number out of my rear, but while I haven't actually looked into "high quality" scrubs, I own some I wear to school/clinicals now, and they were less than $20 per set; so I'm guessing a bit over double that ($50) is reasonable for a high quality pair. Heck, even if they're $100 per pair, $700 a year on work uniforms isn't a deal breaker considering moving into this career change will be on the high side of tripling my current annual income.

2) If you soil your custom scrubs at the start of the day, what are you going to do for the rest of the day? How are you going to carry?

Guess I could always bring a backup set in my gym bag. I carry a gym bag to work daily now, so adding two extra loose garments isn't going to hurt.

3) People are curious. They will inevitably ask why you don't wear the hospital-issued scrubs and why you are taking soiled scrubs home to clean.

"I like wearing my own. " Many of the people at the hospital I volunteer at currently wear their own scrubs to and from work. And really, as I said many times, I'm not going to carry if it's going to violate my employer's policy. Given that, it's going to be okay if coworkers come to know I carry (since I wouldn't be doing anything wrong by carrying) - just as long as it's concealed throughout the shift. In other words, if a coworker were to see me changing out of a soiled set of scrubs in the locker room, it wouldn't mean the end of my career just because he saw me move a holstered firearm to the clean set of scrubs. The goal here is to keep the firearm concealed from the eyes of the public, so that I'm abiding by "concealed means concealed" type laws - that's why I started the thread.

 

[WC145]

In 23 years only one hospital I've worked in issued scrubs for other than the OR crew, and they gave them to us to take home so they got worn to and from work. These days most hospitals don't bother to spend the money, in fact, (except for OR) I don't know any that do.

Everyone keeps an extra set of scrubs in their bag, you learn that on day one.

Violating any company policy, unless you are in turn violating a law, shouldn't have any effect on the status of you professional certification/licensure. Employers are not required to report violations of policy to certifying agencies.


OP- Several of our ER docs and some other personnel have taken to wearing EMT/paramedic style pants like you would get from 5.11 and also Carharrt pants. Don't know if you could get away with that in your situation. They'd be plenty heavy for pocket carry.

 

[X-Rap]

I guess a concern for me these days would be the need to decon and turn over everything I had on my person if I were somehow exposed to these virulent viruses that we are starting to import.
I'm sure that at times even without Ebola health care workers scrubs are exposed to pathogens that they would rather not take home and put in the family wash.
What do you do with the gun then?

 

[BSA1]

I'm not sure why some of you are so persistent in making wild assumptions about hospital policy.

Er, I have not been the only one to point out the policies of many health care facilities.

I understand it may be the case that my employer will have a policy against employee carry; Heck, I understand that it probably will be the case. But to say that it will be the case is enormously presumptuous.

I never said otherwise.

Additionally, I very clearly stated, multiple times and in multiple places, that I am not willing to violate policy: if my employer has a policy against employee carry, then I won't carry. It literally isn't possible for me to have made that more clear than I did. Some of you just aren't reading the thread; and for those who this applies to, I can't begin to understand why you would even take the time to post at all.

Oh I read both of your threads...carefully. As someone who is new and working in a unknown position I do find your attitude interesting. The health care professionals I know and work with over the many years are more concerned about being good caregivers than security officers.

As I suggested working in a hospital may not be the best choice for you. Many find working in Clinic more desirable. The hours are much better (Monday - Friday 8 - 5), stress level much lower and pay is comparable with hospitals. And they may allow you to carry heat as part of security.

You're wasting both your time and mine.

Thank you but how I spend my time is of no concern to you.

 

[Chris Sarno]

I've worked all of my life in hospitals here in the twin cities, St, Joes, United, Regions(St. Paul Ramsey)ect and not one of them allows anyone but LEO's to possess a firearm on premise, and even those folks must turn them over upon entry to the secure psych units! I cannot imagine a hospital anywhere in the USA where they would allow for such, in fact its not going to happen, they will not allow the op to do so, and will terminate him/her upon detection of the activity.

 

[Bobson]

The health care professionals I know and work with over the many years are more concerned about being good caregivers than security officers.

*Slow Clap*

Thank you; you're right. My priorities have been misplaced. I couldn't possibly provide quality healthcare and have an inanimate object on my person at the same time.

I'm sure you're an inspiration to non-thinkers everywhere.