Concealed Carry Permit pays off

[MikeS63301]

I heard about this on the local radio tonight. Looks like the good guy came out on top in this story. Good for him! The part of town this happened in isn't exactly the safest part of St Louis County.

"Pizza deliveryman who shot robber had gun permit
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/28/2007
A Domino’s pizza deliveryman who shot and killed a would-be robber in Pagedale has a valid permit to carry a weapon and appears to have acted in self-defense, according to St. Louis County police.

The driver, who works for the Domino’s franchise nearby in University City, delivered an order at 7 p.m. Thursday to a phony address in the 6500 block of Julian Avenue, where two armed men announced a robbery. The driver pulled his own pistol and fired shots, striking one of the robbers.

Brian Smith, 19, of the 600 block of Ferguson Avenue in Ferguson, was pronounced dead at the scene, said officer Tracy Panus, the department spokeswoman. The other gunman fled. Police arrested a suspect this afternoon and booked him pending application of warrants, she said.

Panus said the driver may have been fired upon, but was not wounded. She said officers found a pistol at the scene that hadn’t been fired.

The driver surrendered his own weapon and showed officers a concealed-carry permit from Florida. Panus said officers verified the permit this afternoon.

Panus said Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch’s office will review the police reports but added, "It doesn’t appear to us that (the driver) did anything wrong."

Domino’s executives could not be reached. A spokeswoman for Domino’s headquarters in Ann Arbor, Mich., said the company was cooperating, but referred all questions to police"

 

[davidjblythe]

I wonder when he will get his pistol back

 

[gravis86]

I wonder when he will get his pistol back

I wonder how long it'll be before he gets fired, if he hasn't been already. Part of the reason I won't buy Pizza Hut (aside from Papa John's being WAY better) is that it's against company policy to allow employees to carry.

 

[Roc_Kor]

Probably as soon as all the paperwork is done and after the prosecutors officially decide to not file any charges. And Pizza Hut doesn't let them carry? Gah I looooove Pizza Hut. Now I'm confused between my love of artery-clogging goodness and the 2nd Amendment! And if he gets fired I hope there's a huge backlash against Domino's.

 

[Bruce333]

Good one.

Hopefully he doesn't get fired for carrying on the job.

BTW: here's a story link

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...9553C0B469F89078862573BF000DCF98?OpenDocument

 

[NGIB]

If there are any pizza delivery folks that don't carry - they should. I can't think of any job that needs protection more than these folks...

 

[MikeS63301]

Part of the reason I won't buy Pizza Hut

hmmmmm, I wonder how many pizza places actually do let their drivers carry?

 

[MDW GUNS]

The gun will be in the PD locker until the DA drops the case.
If the driver gets fired (what I think will happen) I would sue the company >>> unsave work conditions.

 

[doc2rn]

Pizza

I can buy dominos on sw side of campus or poppa johns on the ne side. If dominos sinks this guy I will quit buying from them. For them it's all about the bottom line.

 

[chipperi]

Company permitted or not, no minimum wage job is worth your life. I would definitely carry if I was a pizza delivery person, regardless.

 

[Rustynuts]

All chain pizza sucks, so why buy anyway! Problem is, here in Tampa, ALL THE PIZZA SUCKS, even the independents. Mostly cause they imitate the lowly New York style. I'm from Chicago, so it's hard match the #1 pizza town! Hate Daley though.

 

[lacoochee]

Rustynuts try Giardano's on Dale Mabry just south of I-275 or there is one in Brandon on Causeway Blvd. that should fix you right up.

 

[mikec]

hmmmmm, I wonder how many pizza places actually do let their drivers carry?

Many years back I worked for a family owned shop, the owner let me carry if I wanted to.

 

[Hardtarget]

I never did the pizza delivery job. I worked a service station 6-10 pm. We had a guy that worked 10 pm to 6 am ALONE. He was sick one night and I told the boss I could stay till 2 am. Then I said I would be armed. He said he didn't care if I carried a shotgun. I didn't have to stay. Another guy took care of it.

Mark.

 

[mekender]

i carried for many different pizza companies... PH does not allow weapons, the private chains i worked for didnt care...

i carried and figured that i was better off alive and jobless than dead and still employed

 

[Soybomb]

Here's another take on the story
Friday, 28 Dec 2007, 8:46 PM CST
.
By John Gadson

(KTVI - myFOXstl.com) --

Police have now identified the teenager killed during an apparent "botched" robbery attempt in Pagedale.

A pizza delivery man shot the suspected robber with a semi automatic weapon.

The victim was only carrying a toy gun.

St. Louis County police have now identified the teenager killed during the robbery.

He's Brian Smith of the 600 block of Ferguson in Ferguson.

Sources close to the investigation say it appears two men laid in ambush, waiting for the Dominos pizza delivery driver.

When he pulled up, they came to his car.

One of them had a real gun,the other armed with a toy.

But to their surprise the driver had a gun of his own, a semi automatic weapon.

One of them struck the nineteen year old Smith.

He was shot in the head.

He died at the scene.

The second suspected robber may have fired his gun first.

Late Friday afternoon he was arrested, but he's yet to be charged.

Police also found a cell phone.

The last number dialed was Dominos Pizza on Olive in University City.


[email protected]

Mr. Gadson, I recently read your follow up piece on the robber killed
during a pizza robbery and had some comments on it. I was wondering if
you could tell me if I'm reading too much into things or if you're
injecting a personal bias into the story.

"A pizza delivery man shot the suspected robber with a semi automatic
weapon."
The use of "semi-automatic" here seems like a scare tactic for people who
don't know what the term means and will just focus on "automatic." A
handgun firing 1 shot every time the trigger is pulled is certainly
nothing unusual.

"The victim was only carrying a toy gun."
Would the victim not be the pizza delivery person? I thought the robber
was carrying a toy gun. Would you write up the recent mall/church
shooters are victims or would you call them the shooters? Also why is the
word "only" used? That seems to imply that the robber wasn't a threat.

Finally I don't know if you try to use an inverted pyramid form to your
news articles but if so it seems off. The important details of the story
are all buried down below. Up at the top of the story it reads like this
poor teenager who only had a toy gun was shot by a pizza guy with a scary
semi-automatic guy. Down below we get the meat of the story that two
robbers, one with a real gun, robbed a pizza guy. The robbers may have
fired first, the driver defended his life.

Perhaps I'm overly sensitive to such things after the long struggle to get
concealed carry so that people like the delivery driver could defend
themselves and not be helpless victims to thugs. I would appreciate
hearing any comments you might have on it and if you feel like you did in
some way portray the robber as a victim of the pizza man.

 

[spwenger]

Wrong Title for Thread

Since most people who obtain concealed-carry permits do not carry routinely, this thread would have been better titled "Concealed Carry Pays Off."

Sorry to pick nits but it's just that as a CWP instructor I am aware of how many of my graduates only carry part-time. In a period of just under 20 years, in a state in which I could not obtain a CWP, I experienced four high-threat incidents. (I was armed in the last three and was forced to draw but not fire in the last one.) The point I try to make to my students is that the one thing all four incidents had in common was the lack of a phone call, telegram or certified letter advising me that my life would be placed in jeopardy on that particular day or night.

 

[HeavyDuty]

Well written letter, Soybomb!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I think it unlikely that Domino's would allow anyone to carry weapons, therefore would not be surprised to see him fired. But, jobs can be replaced much more easily than lives.

 

[english kanigit]

Dollars to doughnuts the delivery guy has already been fired.

I used to be a driver for Jason's Deli. Carry was strictly verboten. I even took grief for always having a 3 d-cell maglite with me on all night deliveries. Thankfully the worst I ever had to deal with was a pissed of rottie. A couple good whacks stunned him long enough I was able to leave the area...


If I still held that job today I would carry without hesitation.


Ek

 

[BlackBearME]

I agree with Soybomb's letter, even if it does need a little proofreading

The mis-matched use of terms for what I suspect to be the same type of firearm does indeed disturb me, as does calling the would-be robber a "victim."

Precisely what was he a victim of? Retribution? Getting his just desserts?

Man, I'm beginning to sound like a conservative..........that's weird.

 

[BlackBearME]

I just added my $0.15 (I'm generous) sent to both John Gadson's email, and the "Contact us" form on the "myfoxstl.com" website.

Dear Mr. Gadson,

While I appreciate your efforts at reporting, I must say your article regarding the "Pagedale Shooting" seems to be slanted. Your use of the term "victim" to describe the individual killed is woefully inappropriate. If he did, as seems to be the case, attempt an armed robbery, what would you consider him a victim of? If an individual waves, points, or brandishes a firearm - real or not - at a police officer, he can expect to get shot. Why should the same not be true of your average citizen? Your average citizen has as much a right to delf-defense as does a law enforcement officer. The robber participated in an armed robbery and was shot for his efforts. The only thing the deceased was a victim of was karma, or retribution. Every person has a right to self-defense.

I must also say that your differentiation between terms of what are likely similar firearms seems to be biased. You say that the living robber has a gun, but state that the delivery driver had a "semi automatic weapon." In all likelihood the robber's weapon was a semi-auto as well; and if not, i'm sure you are able to ascertain the type. Why not list it? I can only deduct that your intention was to put an anti-gun slant on this article, and to shed a negative life on legal carry of weapons, and self-defense in general.

In the future, it would be best in the interest of fair journalism if you would refrain from injecting any bias into your reporting. You are doing yourself, as well as the community at large, a disservice by failing to do anything but report the facts, as objectively as possible.

Sincerely,

[BlackBear]

 

[cleardiddion]

I have to say, your response was very well written Soybomb and BlackBearME. Well done.

 

[Soybomb]

I agree with Soybomb's letter, even if it does need a little proofreading

They usually do, with the amount of letter writing I do though it isn't always a luxury I indulge in for the quicker letters. Thanks for writing, I think its important.

 

[BlackBearME]

Thank you, cleardiddion. I may not have years of expertise in the area of guns, but I can write a letter, darnit! I got something to contribute to this community.

And yes, Soybomb, I think it's important, too. And I don't even live in the area.

ETA: Hahahaha! After reading my own letter (which, sad to say, was direct copy and paste from the letters I sent) I see that my own was in need of a little closer proofreading.