concealed carry while playing pool( printing ?)

[TwinReverb]

My friend is 21 and has a concealed carry license for our state. Our college is near a pool hall/bar and our state allows ccw in a bar if you don't drink. We were wondering what position would be good for when bending over in situations like playing pool.

Appendix is my vote.

Or get a smaller gun

 

[aeriedad]

We were wondering what position would be good for when bending over in situations like playing pool.

My sons invited me to play pool a few weeks ago. Went to a pool hall that serves alcohol. Carried 4" 1911 IWB as usual, no problem. Untucked, button-down short-sleeved shirt, long enough to cover holster & pistol completely. I may have printed a little from time to time, but never exposed anything directly. Works well as long as I don't fully bend at the waist to touch my toes (as if!).

 

[MedWheeler]

Entrop writes:

Yes, it was stupid as hell for me, whether legal or not, to do so.

What was? Being at the pool room? Or, having the knife? I didn't see anything in your post that says you did anything stupidly. I don't think we should all hole up in our houses, afraid to go anywhere just because we carry, lest we end up in some confrontation somewhere.

It sounds like you acted coolly and collectedly, with an admirable effort to de-escalate the already rare situation. Your knife never even came out, nor did you threaten him with it. Good work, in my opinion.

 

[gamestalker]

Bars and establishments that sell open container alcohol are no doubt bad environments to introduce a firearm into. I don't part take of alcohol, but even when in my younger years when I would enjoy a drink or two, I never frequented bars, I just couldn't tolerate waiting for my quarter in the line to come up, while being surrounded by a bunch of slobbering drunks. And even though I support all aspects of"right to carry", I do agree with others here that carrying into an establishment that serves alcohol is a bad idea, and thus increases the likelihood of a violent encounter or incident.

So now with that off my chest, the billiard halls I play in don't serve alcohol. So when the OP mentioned playing pool, I envisioned a pool hall, not a bar. For one thing, the pool tables in bars are often beat up, and the tables aren't regulation size.

GS

 

[ljnowell]

Gun in a bar?? Where is that allowed? Bad idea.

We used to go to happy hour a few times per week. I bet I saw 20 fights start with a sober guy being put into a situation of fight or be sucker punched by some drunk determined to show how big and bad he was. I am glad that guns never came into the mix.

In IL we have the 51% rule so lots of bar and grills are open game. If my family goes for food, I'm carrying.

 

[mljdeckard]

Here's a new one: Who cares? If I forego the bridge cue, and lean way over for the long shot, the butt of my 1911 might stick out a little. I really don't care. People see what they want to see, and most people who would notice are other gun people. I don't care if they know. Concealment is not required in my state. If I were really concerned about it, I would leave a hoodie on to keep things blurry, but like I say most of the time I just wouldn't care. I have played pool lately with my kids at a bowling alley, but if I wanted to play a LOT of pool, I would just go to my uncle's.

As for carrying in bars, it's legal in my state. (While I certainly don't recommend it,) You can drink while carrying, as long as it's below .08. There's bars and then there's bars. I had a burger at a brew pub that required ID this afternoon. As for the nasty place on State street SLC that's full of bikers.....I just don't go there. (Stupid places, stupid things, stupid people.) (Not to offend the non-stupid bikers in this forum.)

 

[X-Rap]

Some of these posts sound like the claims of blood running in the streets we've heard since the beginning of the concealed carry movement.
I know of many states that allow carry under some sort of 51% law and there are also more than a few that allow consumption with levels similar to those under driving statutes, again no blood in the streets.
I don't believe that our right to defend ourselves ends at the door just because there is alcohol sold within.
We all must use our best judgement when and wherever we carry simple as that. I doubt that I will dress and carry around my ability to shoot a game of pool. Untucked shirt, hoodie, shoulder holster, or pocket carry would all be ways I've carried in similar circumstances.

 

[TwinReverb]

I will say this, however: whether people drink while carrying or not is on them. Me, i don't ever consume alcohol while carrying. It's not something i want coming up in court nor on my conscience. Also, alcohol only makes my reaction time slower and my aim worse.

I don't judge those who do. I see no problem with just one drink. But it's like trying to have just one Pringle, for some people. For others, it's not.

Still, if you absolutely have to drink to enjoy yourself, you have bigger issues.

So my vote is appendix or pocket, no printing. Or many of the other ways to not print.

As for the venue,however, i don't know if i like the prospect of opening fire in a bar due to how crowded it may be at the time, etc. But it beats being without the gun. A person i once worked with lost his bicep to a knife attack on a bar. Like they couldn't save his left bicep. His arm adapted, and he overcame it, but it was still freaky.

 

[TwinReverb]

Here's a new one: Who cares? If I forego the bridge cue, and lean way over for the long shot, the butt of my 1911 might stick out a little. I really don't care. People see what they want to see, and most people who would notice are other gun people. I don't care if they know. Concealment is not required in my state

I say it's still not worth losing the element of surprise. It prevents gun grabs (they can't steal what they don't know exists), awkward situations (some people, irrationally or not, fear guns), and for those in certain states, litigation and/or being kicked out. Some bars and pool halls can attract lowlifes and you may not know it until it's too late. Besides have you seen how much people tune out their surroundings while playing pool? Me, i like the element of surprise too much to lose it.

 

[X-Rap]

i don't know if i like the prospect of opening fire in a bar due to how crowded it may be at the time,

Some Texans can probably tell the story better but I'm pretty sure the Lubys tragedy that spawned their CCW movement was in a crowded restaurant and absent the alcohol you have a very similar possible scenario.

 

[mljdeckard]

Then....the problem is the place you are in. If it attracts lowlifes.....don't go there in the first place. Don't strap on a gun and go anyway. (See: "Doing stupid things in stupid places with stupid people".)

 

[Uglyducky]

I think it's been covered . . . but just in case, BAD IDEA. Risk vs reward??? Too much risk.

 

[TwinReverb]

Very true, mljdeckard, but sometimes the low-lifes visit bars not known for catering to the scum of the earth

 

[Sam1911]

Very true, mljdeckard, but sometimes the low-lifes visit bars not known for catering to the scum of the earth

And that's equally true of ANY other establishment. Hence, why we carry all the time, not just when/where "we think we might need it."

 

[Sav .250]

Even with a permit ............choices have to be made.

Put another way. If (who ever) is carrying, that`s means they are ready and willing to shoot somebody. If the situation occurs .

Weapons can certainly be "covered." Common sense should tell you how!

 

[Sam1911]

Even with a permit ............choices have to be made.

Exactly, and I think that's a point many of us are making. If a place is so dangerous that you're likely to be in a violent encounter -- DON'T GO THERE for any reason. There is no "safe" amount you can be beaten up, slashed, or shot. No acceptable amount of being concussed with a pool cue or stomped by thugs. If those things happen with any frequency at all, find some other place to enjoy your game. No amount of fun is worth the physical and legal risks of that sort of environment.

If this place you want to hang out in is safe enough for you to go, then you should be able to go armed, as any violence that befalls you is unexpected, out of character for the venue, and against your will.



This is a bit of an odd conversation, really. Normally we have to caution people to "Never go someplace WITH a gun, if you wouldn't willingly go there without one." In other words, the value of avoiding the bravado of hiding behind your gun, or believing your gun is there like a magic shield to make you tougher.

Now we're reversing the situation, in a mind-twisting sense: having to caution people that there aren't any places you should ever hang out in which are TOO DANGEROUS to go armed! It really boggles the brain when you stop and think about it. "Oh, people get the crap beat out of them here all the time, cut up, put in the hospital. Maybe killed. I'd better not bring a GUN! Somebody might get hurt!"

 

[Tirod]

What I'm reading is that some people LIKE to go to bars where confrontations are common.

The problem is that those locations also attract young males who don't conform to the rules of escalation, ie, monkey dancing. And that is when someone jumps ahead to the triple dog dare with no reason. What should have been a low scale diss - walking behind a pool shooter in a tight situation - becomes "you wanna go outside?"

Locations that get a reputation for violence attract men who are not schooled on normal social interaction - they don't up the ante to the next step, they jump to physical force, which then goes lethal quickly.

Define "lethal?" That is exactly the problem - your idea of lethal isn't the next guys. Where some people in their culture think cutting each other with knives as simply an intermediate level of rough housing, others would see it as life threatening and death dealing.

It's like the photo constantly posted up in knife forums where someone takes exception that knives aren't lethal, and shows someone badly cut up sitting in a hospital emergency room. Said individual is wide awake and walked in - not dead. Blows their point completely but does provide an example of what some consider to be a way to punish those who lack respect.

And that is the game - to get respect from others, and force them to do it. There are pool halls - where players go to enjoy the sport - and bars that attract combatants that just happen to have a pool table.

If you don't know the difference, then why do you think you know when and where to carry a gun? Deliberately choosing to accept a high risk just to feed your ego? Maybe you shouldn't take a gun and take better skills at handling mortal combat in violent places, and leave the reputation of gun owners less sullied.

"I know it's a violent place, so I take a gun to win." Really?

 

[Sam1911]

"I know it's a violent place, so I take a gun to win." Really?

No, not really. Fortunately, no one has said any such thing here, at all.

 

[aeriedad]

If you don't know the difference, then why do you think you know when and where to carry a gun? Deliberately choosing to accept a high risk just to feed your ego? Maybe you shouldn't take a gun and take better skills at handling mortal combat in violent places, and leave the reputation of gun owners less sullied.

"I know it's a violent place, so I take a gun to win." Really?

If I expect violence at a place, I don't go to that place.
If a place is too dangerous to go with a gun, it's too dangerous to go there at all.
If a place is safe enough to go without a gun, it's also safe enough to go there with one.
If I go to a place that turns unexpectedly violent, I'd rather be carrying than not.

Works for me.

 

[MedWheeler]

Is this thread still about the question posed by the OP?

 

[Sam1911]

It is about that, and the attendant issues surrounding the question.


If you feel it has wandered too far off topic, please feel free to hit the "Report Post" button (

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[Jeff White]

I suppose I started this line of discussion when I said this in post #2:

You also have to be very aware of the fact that every encounter you get into is an armed encounter when you carry. You can't escalate any disagreement that might happen with someone in the bar who is drinking. You don't want it to turn into a fight.

You are much more likely to end up using your firearm in a bar situation that turns physical then you would be to use it to protect yourself from a robber.

Bars, especially bars that are frequented by the college crowd are often places where immaturity, alcohol and testosterone make a very volatile mix.

Someone doesn't like the way someone else looks at his girlfriend, words turn to shoves, turn to punches then a gun is thrown into the mix and at least two lives change forever.

I'm not telling you not to carry there if it's legal, I'm asking you to really, really think about some things before you make that decision.

Sorry folks, but I'm not comfortable giving advice to a 21 year old I don't know about the best way to carry concealed in a college bar without adding a couple things that everyone who is just starting out (and unfortunately some who have been carrying a while) should think about in that situation.

I've had a lot of experience as a platoon sergeant and first sergeant in the Army and as a police officer after retiring from the Army with people who have let alcohol, immaturity and testosterone combine to get them into trouble.

We even had an incident in the St Louis metro area a couple years back where the honor graduate of the last class at the St Louis Police Academy got involved in a situation that cost him his job in a very similar environment.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_30b6dd02-b458-11df-af17-0017a4a78c22.html

Pour, now 28, was an off-duty rookie police office who, along with three other off-duty St. Louis police officers, were in Illinois for a birthday and engagement celebration. Pour had graduated at the top of his police academy class and was assigned to the 4th District, downtown.

Prosecutors alleged that Pour became involved in a fight on the bar's parking lot and shot Bladdick as Bladdick tried to come to his aid.

Watkins had said earlier that Pour was attacked by two men on the parking lot and struck with a metal bar. Watkins said Pour reached for his gun to defend himself and mistakenly shot Bladdick.

"It was a perfect alignment of the moon and stars, in a tragic way for all involved," Watkins said Monday.

I think it's only being responsible to remind ourselves and especially those new to carrying a weapon that the perfect alignment of the moon and stars sometimes happens and when it does it often ends in tragedy.

 

[jlr1962]

PA, for one, and in fact it is legal to drink while carrying. Oddly, we have no more blood in the streets, nor in our bars, than any other state...and a lot less than some.

We have this debate every few months. It is a worry that bothers a lot of people way out of proportion to how things actually ARE.


So, if I'm going to visit a place would I rather be armed, in case I'm attacked, or unarmed, in case I'm attacked? Question really seems quite simple to me.

I'm not a fighter, not a brawler or trouble-maker. If someone attacks me, I do reserve the right to defend myself in any place that might happen, with the most effective tool I have.

It is a logical disconnect to say, "wow, I'm likely to be attacked here! Sure am glad I don't have a weapon on me!" What, are we buying into the myth that it's ok to be in bar fights because they'll probably just beat you up "a little" and you wouldn't want to introduce a gun into a little gentlemanly arse-whoopin'?

If you think you're likely to be attacked DON'T GO THERE.
If you are willing to go to a place, go armed.

What did you do for entertainment in your early 20's.

 

[Sam1911]

What did you do for entertainment in your early 20's.

Whatever I wanted and could afford. Shot, hung out with friends (mostly rifle team buds back at PSU), hiked, camped, hunted, fished, worked on my truck, hit the arcade, ... pretty much what any guy does. I didn't spend a whole lot of time in bars, but I never was involved in a fight (or even saw a serious one) in the ones I did choose to imbibe in.

If you're the gun carrying sort, it stands to reason that a) you think about safety and the use of force, and b) you don't willingly put yourself in pointless danger. Even as a somewhat younger guy I had no interest in brawling or what we now think of as the "monkey dance." And I don't think someone coming here to as a sober question about this topic is looking for that, either.



But just in case it isn't perfectly clear by now, if you are willingly frequenting known trouble spots and engaging in violent behavior -- carrying a gun is just compounding the knuckle-draggingly STUPID mistakes you're already making!

 

[DHJenkins]

Cargo pants/shorts work great for pocket carry.