Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens Over Two-Years

[Titan6]

Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Kill 7 Police, 44 Private Citizens Over Two-Year Period

31 Incidents Result in Criminal Charges or Suicide of Concealed Handgun Permit Holder

WASHINGTON, July 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens in 31 incidents during the period May 2007 through April 2009 according to a new study http://www.vpc.org/studies/ccw2009.pdf) released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC). The release of the study comes as the U.S. Senate is expected to take up today -- Monday, July 20 -- an amendment to the defense authorization bill (S. 1390) that would create a de facto national concealed carry system, overriding the rights of states with more restrictive laws governing the carrying of concealed handguns. The amendment is sponsored by Senator John Thune (R-SD). Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) has said he will filibuster the amendment.

Because most state systems allowing the carrying of concealed handguns in public by private citizens release little data about crimes committed by permit holders, the VPC reviewed shooting incidents as reported by news outlets. It is likely that the actual number of fatal criminal incidents involving concealed handgun permit holders is far higher.

The study, "Law Enforcement and Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders -- An Analysis of News Reports, May 2007 to April 2009," finds that during the two-year period reviewed --

* Concealed handgun permit holders have slain seven law enforcement officers resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All of the killings were committed with guns. An additional three law enforcement officers were injured in these incidents.
* Concealed handgun permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these incidents.
* In six of the 31 incidents (19 percent), the concealed handgun permit holder killed himself, bringing the total fatality count to 57.

VPC Legislative Director Kristen Rand states, "State concealed handgun systems are arming cop-killers and other murderers. It is beyond irrational for Congress to vote to expand the reach of these deadly laws."

The study offers detailed descriptions of the 31 incidents, which occurred in 15 states. Law enforcement officers were killed in: Florida, Idaho, Ohio (two incidents), and Pennsylvania (two incidents). Private citizens were killed in: Alabama, Colorado, Florida (nine incidents), Idaho, Kentucky, Minnesota, New York, North Carolina (two incidents), Ohio (three incidents), Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah (two incidents), and Virginia.

The Violence Policy Center (www.vpc.org) is a national educational organization working to stop gun death and injury.

CONTACT: Mandy Wimmer, Communications Associate of the Violence Policy Center, +1-202-822-8200 ext. 110, [email protected]


SOURCE Violence Policy Center

Always consider the source.

This lovely work opens with:

For more than two decades, the gun lobby’s top priority has been establishing and expanding state
laws that allow the carrying of concealed handguns by private citizens. These “shall issue” laws
eliminate the discretion of local law enforcement and licensing agencies to determine eligibility for
permits to carry concealed handguns (commonly known as CCW, concealed carry weapon, permits).
Instead, in many states, the criteria for legally carrying a loaded, hidden handgun in public is
virtually equal to the limited requirements that must be met to purchase a handgun.

 

[Maelstrom]

They're so cute when they're panicked.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Assuming they're not outright lying or distorting as they have been caught in the past, VPC is cherry picking stats.

IIRC, roughly 50-60 policemen are killed in the line of duty by gunfire per year. (Yes, it really is that few...lots of hoopla over 50 guys, when you consider how many civilians get it.)

Let's figure since they needed a range of 2 years to get 7 permit holders, that this is 7 out of 110.

That means that of the police are being shot 16 times more by people without permits than with.

Roughly 8,000 people a year are killed by handguns. And the VPC can only find 44 shot by permit holders in a 2 year period?

Pathetic.

So, to continue, that means that people are being killed 364 times more by people without permits than with.

 

[Titan6]

You really need to read the report. Many of the people are accused of murder and not yet convicted. Of course McLendon is on there and he accounts for 11 by himself.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Always consider the source.

Are you saying the incidents are fabricated? While VPC may be the summary article, the incidents I checked match their descriptions. In other words, they appear to be reporting correct information. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

 

[geekWithA.45]

In other words, they appear to be reporting correct information. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

*Anything* and *everything* coming from the VPC must be verified. They've fabricated and twisted stuff beyond recognition before. This doesn't mean that they also haven't used real facts, when it suits them.

Given their track record, they completely deserve not to be taken seriously until every footnote has been authenticated.

 

[Titan6]

Are you saying the incidents are fabricated? While VPC may be the summary article, the incidents I checked match their descriptions. In other words, they appear to be reporting correct information. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it wrong.

If a person has not been convicted of killing someone in America they are innocent until proven guilty. At least that used to be the law, I think.

Roughly 8,000 people a year are killed by handguns. And the VPC can only find 44 shot by permit holders in a 2 year period?

They are also counting those that killed people with rifles if they had a CCL. But, yes the math works out to roughly one in 600 killings are committed by a person with a CCL.

 

[jnuts]

here in Utah

some crazy crackhead came at a CCP holder and started in with insults got himself shot
http://www.districtattorney.slco.org/cmsdocuments/pressReleases/PR090408HarrisonScan.pdf
Never charged the guy guess it was a clean shoot.
Bummer for the guys family but what are you gonna do?

 

[Zoogster]

The VPC can never be trusted, the spin on anything they cite is horrible. Statistics ususaly very flawed. They cite debunked studies for years.
Anything that actualy did happen is exaggerated by them and exploited by being mentioned in so many different ways each time it sounds like they are refering to a seperate incident even as they re-use the same specific example over and over.

 

[Titan6]

If you are going to commit suicide you don't really need the CHL do you? Just buy the gun and do it. I know this runs well counter to the argument that having the gun in the home "increases your risk of suicide" but there are no hard numbers either way.

 

[doc2rn]

wonder how many of the 7 officers where out of uniform

 

[billybob44]

The stats that never show up

The stories that are never part of public record are the amount of times that a felony in progress is stopped by an armed citizen. These happen many times daily and hardly ever are reported. Think of it people-has it ever happened to you-it has to me on several occasions. This situation probably happens thousands of times per year, and is the reason that the American Citizen MUST retain the right to carry concealed firearms.

 

[DennisB]

Instead, in many states, the criteria for legally carrying a loaded, hidden handgun in public is
virtually equal to the limited requirements that must be met to purchase a handgun.

Really?!

 

[SHusky57]

an amendment to the defense authorization bill (S. 1390) that would create a de facto national concealed carry system, overriding the rights of states with more restrictive laws governing the carrying of concealed handguns. The amendment is sponsored by Senator John Thune (R-SD). Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) has said he will filibuster the amendment.

Does anyone else think this is bass ackwards? I understand Republicans are generally pro-gun, but isn't the point of the Republican party small government and state's rights? Creating a national CCW system and going over the states is being proposed by a Republican? And a Democrat is going to filibuster it?

I know it's slightly off-topic, not trying to start a political thread, but strange things are happening in the country.

And 44 homicides over 2 years by CCW holders = 22 homicides per year average. Consider the national homicide rate is something like 15,000-16,000 per year and CCW holders account for .0015% of all murders, or 1.5 of every thousand. To put that in perspective, 40,000 people die in automobiles every year, 15,000 by homicide, and 22 by CCW holder. I still think swimming pools are more deadly than CCW holders, but I can't recall the statistic off the top of my head, and I don't believe in pulling them out of the butt.

 

[noskilz]

3 of the 7 LEO's were killed by Richard Poplawski, the worthless nutjob who was terrorizing his mother. That definitely hurts the stats.

 

[aquapong]

Good...push this so they have to fillibuster instead of pushing the healthcare and cap and trade crap. The Dems are for states' rights when it suits them.

 

[John Wayne]

I wonder if they're counting justifiable shootings of "private citizens" as well. I mean, if a guy comes at you with a tire iron and you shoot him to protect your life, you *technically* killed a "private citizen."

Taking that a step further, if you consider all policemen as CWP holders, you can count all incidents where off-duty police officers shot violent criminals as "shootings of private citizens."

It's quite easy to see how these statistics can be skewed, but the sad part is most people won't read beyond the title.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Here's an example of how the VPC distorts data, something I strongly suspect they've done with this "study."

Several years back, the Texas Department of Public Safety posted numbers online for arrests and convictions of permit holders for any crimes more serious than a traffic ticket. The convictions were listed in no particular order and were not categorized.

The VPC took these numbers and created a "study." They created a class of offenses they called "weapons offenses." Into this category they inserted the number of permit holders arrested for discharging firearms within city limits, carrying in a place prohibited by the concealed weapons law, and failure to display a carry permit.

The last two offenses are ones that pretty much only permit holders would be arrested for. Thus, the VPC was able to state that in Texas, permit holders are 66% more likely to be arrested for "weapons offenses" than the general public.

It was because of the VPC's distortions that the Texas DPS started publishing arrest rates for the general public alongside permit holders.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

They are missing important statistics such as how many lives were spared and murders prevented by CHL holders. Did they bring down any planes with their .50 calibers like the VPC warned?
Heaven forbid the VPC ever does an article on automobiles or swimming pools.
I think if they studied an equal number of off duty law enforcement officers they'd find similar results. Anytime deadly force is involved people tend to get hurt or killed.

Because most state systems allowing the carrying of concealed handguns in public by private citizens release little data about crimes committed by permit holders, the VPC reviewed shooting incidents as reported by news outlets.

But of course they did. What more authoritative source than the blatantly anti-gun media? Hang em before the fingerprints dry.

 

[4v50 Gary]

On the police killings, I read that it said concealed weapons holder, but I wonder if that statistic includes police suicides? Police suicide is not a new phenomenon.

 

[Diamondback6]

This is also a group that counts 19- and 20-yer-old gangbangers as victims of "Gun Crimes Against Children".

How many of those 44 shootings came out with "Not Guilty By Reason of Self Defense?" Or would they have it be skip the trial, you're guilty as soon as you're charged and off to the gallows?

 

[akodo]

Concealed handgun permit holders have slain at least 44 private citizens resulting in criminal charges or the suicide of the shooter. All but one of the killings were committed with guns. An additional six private citizens were injured in these incidents.

that means that 1 person wasn't even killed with a gun! Why would you even include that in the stats?

Also, here's how they work it. A person is involved in a hunting accident using his shotgun and another person is killed. Do you have a CCW permit? Yes. Good, one more 'gun death' to put in the tally.

Of course, this type of thinking totally skews results.

Further, they look at people who are charged. We all know here that people are often charged as a knee jerk reaction, and later the charges are dropped...or beaten cleanly in court. It is just to bump up their numbers that they use 'charged'

 

[armoredman]

From Gunfacts 5.1, available from gunfacts.info

"People with concealed carry permits are, 1) 5 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public, 2), 13.5 times less likely to be arrested for non-violent offenses than the general public."
from Analysis of the arrest rate of Texas Concealed Carry handgun license holders as compared to the arrest rate for the entire Texas population., William Sturdevant, PE, September 11 1999.

An interesting statistic is this one,

"Fact - In Florida, a state that has allowed concealed carry since late 1987, you are twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator as by a person with a concealed carry permit.
From Concealed Weapon/License Statistical Report Florida Department of State, 1998, Florida game and Fersh Water Fish Commission, Dec 1998

 

[Dr. Fresh]

That's all well and fine, but does anyone have links to actual numbers? For example, I'd like to see total CCP holders by state as well as the number of crimes (ideally broken down by type) committed by CCP holders.

 

[HKUSP45C]

Further, if you look at the data they're using:
One nutjob killed three cops
One nut job killed ten citizens
One nut job killed thirteen citizens

Three incidents in two years account for nearly HALF of all of the "data."

I still feel dramatically safer in a room full of CHL holders than in just about ANY other venue full of ANY other "category" of people.