Conical Bullets

[a1rstreamer]

Up until now I've been casting .451 balls for my repro .44 Cal. 1858 Remington New Army Service revolver. Looking through the Lee catalog, I see that they have a mold for .44 Cal Remington as a conical bullet. It has 2 lube grooves and they say that the lube will also prevent flashing - so no need for wads.

Has anyone tried this, and what were the results?

 

[swathdiver]

What do you want to use it for? Loaded properly and fitted properly they shoot fine for plinking but the round nose is not as good for taking game as the Kaido 240gr conical. Duelist1954 has many videos doing comparisons with round balls and conicals, including the 200gr and 220gr Lees.

 

[Gatofeo]

Odd. Folks have been taking game up to the size of deer with the Lee conical bullets for decades.
Did deer and coyotes suddenly grow armor plating?
The fact is -- accuracy is more important than conical bullet design. Being able to place the conical bullet exactly where it should be is what counts.
Even the humble round ball will take deer, if placed properly.

Marksmanship, and not taking impossibly long shots, are critical. I would not take any shots against deer beyond 25 or 30 yards. Black powder bullets have comparatively low velocity, and shed that velocity rapidly. This means a loss of striking energy.

Most black powder revolvers have rather rudimentary sights, making accurate placement difficult. The Ruger Old Army and Remington styled revolvers with modern sights are exceptions, but their projectiles still shed velocity quickly.

Stalking skills often come into play as well. The shooter may have to wriggle on his belly for some distance to get close enough to deliver an accurate, killing shot.
Shooting at the range, calmly and with normal breathing, is different from hunting. You may very well be huffing and puffing when you align the sights on a deer, and excited with "Buck Fever."

The best practice is to put up targets in the woods along a one-mile path, jog to within 25 yards of each target, and give yourself 5 seconds to align sights and shoot. This will show exhibit your capabilities and limitations.

Hunting from a stand is different, of course, but you may still have to contend with the excitability of Buck Fever.

The Lee .450" 200 gr. conical bullet is made for most .44 cap and ball revolvers. The Lee .457", 220 gr. bullet is made for the Ruger Old Army.
The larger, heavier bullet may be very difficult to seat in non-Ruger guns. There is no advantage in using it, outside of the Ruger.

Some of the most accurate groups I've obtained have been with the Lee .450" 200 gr. conical in my Uberti-made reproduction of the Remington 1858.
Here are the details:

Goex FFFG – 26.4 grains from flask spout
Lee 200 gr. conical, cast of soft lead
Lubricated with Gatofeo No. 1 lube (search the net for recipe)
Remington No. 11 cap, pinched
No wad beneath bullet
20 yards, measured
Group – 1-1/2 inches vertical, ¾ inch horizontal
Unknown velocity

 

[Pancho]

Gatofeo, it's good to hear from you again on THR. Your wisdom has been missed.

 

[swathdiver]

If you're referring to my post Gatofeo, I'll reiterate that round nose conicals are not as good for taking game as the Kaido conicals and clarify my earlier statement that they will indeed take game just not as effective as the Kaido bullet design which creates massive wound channels while penetrating deeply.

 

[Hellgate]

The only thing I can add to Gatofeo's post is the LEE conicals will shoot higher than the round ball and normal pistol ranges.

 

[rodwha]

"If you're referring to my post Gatofeo, I'll reiterate that round nose conicals are not as good for taking game as the Kaido conicals and clarify my earlier statement that they will indeed take game just not as effective as the Kaido bullet design which creates massive wound channels while penetrating deeply."

I've heard that testing was done against a RN and FN design and that the wound channel was more significant with the FN design. This may not be as important with standard hunting of critters without teeth or claws, but it might matter if they do, which would be why I'd prefer the FN design.

Another bonus, if you consider it so, is that they are shorter and don't take up as much much room in the chamber allowing more powder to be used.

 

[Bayou Runner]

The thread "conical bullets" caught my eye, so I thought I'd check in and see what's going on. I enjoy Lee 200 gr. conicals glued over 30grs. 3f Goex in paper cartridges rammed in my all steel Pietta 58 Remmy. Loads easy and shoots well. Haven't hunted with it, but sure have punched a lot of paper, cardboard, cans and etc. I have the good fortune of shooting in a retired gravel pit within walking distance of the house. Have seen deer in there, so who knows! Yep, it's been a while since I've posted, but I do check subject matter often. Guess I'm kinda like the gravel pit, being retired and all. I see there are other "ole timers" still around!
Mister Moderator,
Do you have any "ole fart" icons?

 

[MCgunner]

In MY 5.5" Pietta '58, the .454" 220 RN shoots at best about 4-5" groups from the bench at 25 yards and groups are a little high, not too bad, but a little. 30 grains volume pyrodex and a .454 cast RB shoots about 2.5" same yardage a little left of POA, but spot on elevation. These are just my results. I have the old discontinued .457" 220 grain HP and a .457" 220 grain RN mold. My ROA loves 'em. Of course, I haven't found much that don't shoot well in the ROA, awesome revolver.

The mold is cheap. Buy it and try it. Far as chain fires go, I have never had one with ball or conical. I think you're more likely to get one through the cap side with an ill fitted cap than through a tight fitting ball. I don't use lubed wads or lube of any kind on the ball, but top the 30 grain charge with cornmeal. That would tend to isolate the powder from any flash over I'd reckon.

A .451" ball sounds a bit loose for a Pietta Remmy. Long as it shaves a good ring of lead on loading, you're okay. I shoot .454, myself.