Contemplating a Kalashnikov

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if you want an AK type rifle, forget about the VZ-58.. its not even remotely similar to the AK.. they are entirely different designs.. saying theyre similar would be like saying an mini-14 and M16 are similar rifles... VZ58 is a short-stroke tilting block rifle with an entirely different trigger group and if i remember correctly, zero interchangable parts.. the only thing they having in common is the caliber they fire

heck, even a mini-30 is closer to an AK because atleast that has a rotating bolt, which means it shares atleast one common feature the AK has

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anyway.. ive been comtemplating an AK as well, im going to build mine myself, so i can be sure its put together right as many of them floating are of questionable build quality from manufacturers that really dont care (like century).... to buy one.. if im not mistaken, doesnt arsenal base a lot of their parts off of the bulgarian design?... i would buy either arsenal or a saiga
 
jason41987 said:
if you want an AK type rifle, forget about the VZ-58.. its not even remotely similar to the AK.. they are entirely different designs.. saying theyre similar would be like saying an mini-14 and M16 are similar rifles... VZ58 is a short-stroke tilting block rifle with an entirely different trigger group and if i remember correctly, zero interchangable parts.. the only thing they having in common is the caliber they fire

heck, even a mini-30 is closer to an AK because atleast that has a rotating bolt, which means it shares atleast one common feature the AK has

-----

anyway.. ive been comtemplating an AK as well, im going to build mine myself, so i can be sure its put together right as many of them floating are of questionable build quality from manufacturers that really dont care (like century).... to buy one.. if im not mistaken, doesnt arsenal base a lot of their parts off of the bulgarian design?... i would buy either arsenal or a saiga
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But they're both gas piston, so the similarity in gas operation is withstanding.
So, your comparison makes no sense, as a Mini is gas piston, AR is DI.

I won't speak for ifit, but I gather that was his point in grouping the two together.
 
the VZ.58 is a short stroke gas piston, the AK is a long stroke.. and technically "direct impinged" is also a short-stroke system since it relies on that initial impulse to operate... so not even the gas system is the same between the VZ and the AK.. theyre just entirely different designs
 
jason41987 said:
the VZ.58 is a short stroke gas piston, the AK is a long stroke.. and technically "direct impinged" is also a short-stroke system since it relies on that initial impulse to operate... so not even the gas system is the same between the VZ and the AK.. theyre just entirely different designs
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We can agree to disagree, on the connection and differences. I see more of a similarity in the VZ and ak, than I do a gas piston operated Mini, and a DI AR that uses nothing of the sort other than gas routed to the bolt. The stroke length is an afterthought, they're both GP! DI is NOT!
 
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different gas system, different carrier, heck, the VZ-58 doesnt even use a rotating bolt, its a tilting block... the VZ-58 with its short stroke gas system and tilting breechblock would make it closer related to an FAL than anything else.. its no an opinion, just a fact about the rifle.. people just assume theyre similar because they use a similar gas block, sights, and magazines which give the end result an AK look externally, but mechanically its more FAL than AK...

and my suggestion to the OP if he has the tools and isnt squeemish about doing the work (he could find video-guides on youtube), i would recommend getting an inexpensive AK parts kit and receiver flat and build one himself
 
Romanian WASR or SAR, Yugo M72, Bulgarian arsenal, Norinco MAK-90 (just ditch the thumbhole crap stock if it has one). All very good.

Stay AWAY from Egyption Maadi's. Junk. Had one blow up on me once! Locking lugs sheared right the hell off. Replacement (under warranty) had a front sight canted left 16 degrees off vertical. Replacement to THAT had a magazine notch in the wrong spot, wouldn't feed rounds. Just.. junk.

Most AK's are good, but I've only owned Yugo, Chinese, Romanian, and Bulgarian.

Some of the Romanian triggers are on the "rough" side. Trigger slap will have you very upset with the gun after a mag or two (on some specimens it's PAINFULLY bad). That is hit and miss though, I've owned a few which were just fine. And a few that I couldn't get more than 5 rounds off before I had to put my index finger on ice.
 
(FYI I sold several dozens of AK's when I had my FFL, I was particularly fond of the EARLY Yugo M70AB2 underfolders with wood furniture. The build quality was spectacular. Century International's production went downhill BAD towards the end of that run, about the time they started running out of wood furniture and switched to plastic. From there on it just got worse and worse.. had a LOT of returns for repair)
 
i keep getting the impression from AK gurus that bulgarians are absolutely top quality AKs... even had higher standards than the russians did with theirs... only downside though is the only 7.62 bulgarian kits ive been able to find were in fact milled.... all their stamped kits are AK-74s

on that note.. have you considered an AK-74 over the 47?... ammo is cheaper now, the round is more accurate, and if you look at the ballistics charts, after a short distance the 5.45 actually becomes more potent than the 7.62 since the poor ballistics coefficiency of the 7.62 causes the round to drop like a rock, and the bullet in the 5.45 was designed specifically to destabilize and tumble only after impact with a target, remaining perfectly stable up until that point

but.. k-var sells 7.62mm trunnions made in bulgaria that.. though im not 100% sure, i believe you can use to put together a milled kit on a stamped receiver?
 
7.62 has better barrier penetration, if that matters.
Not so good for fragmenting in flesh. Deer I've shot with it were through and through with soft points at 125 yards.

Trent: sorry that happened to you! Can't say ive ever had a problematic Maadii. I've found them quite reliable, but all things that can happen usually do.
 
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The only problems with Maadis Ive ever heard of is when Century (surprise, surprise) decided to force-fit Mak90 parts with the MISR using angle grinders and ball-peen hammers creating the MISR-90.

Trent- was your rifle a Century build by chance?
 
SpentCasing;

Not sure who made it but safe bet is Century. It was bought in 1998, post ban config. Probably was a franken-AK. I'm sure the originals are quite good.
 
AK

If you would consider a 74, then Waffen Werks builds a really nice one. Paid $699 incldg. shipping from "Atlantic"

Very little recoil. Much less than my 9mm Beretta 92. (which is very little itself), I know...rifle-pistol comparison, but you get where I'm coming from.

Also, if you buy ammo in bulk, its like 13-17 cents a round. I'm not trying to pimp this particular rifle just because I own it. I own it because it appeared to be one of the better values around at this time.

Also BTW...Trent, sorry you got a lemon. I have always heard really good things about the Maadi. I would like to own one. (a REAL one anyway)

Gunner
 
Some info

The OP asked what is closest to the origional AKM. Anything from Century Arms are junk compared to all other AKM variants. My first AK was a WASR 10, it did what it was supposed to do, but compared to other AKM's they are junk and dont let anyone try to tell you that, that polished turd is anything other than that.
Here is a link to everything you need to know about buying an AK 47 here in the USA what to look for and such.

http://www.ak47world.com/rifles.html

The best place to get the best price on an AKM is at a local pawn shop. I just purchased a excellent condition SAR-1 for $350 out the door. If need be I can scan the receipt for the nay sayers. And yes a SAR 1 is an excellent AKM copy because they were actually built at the former Soviet armory.

One of the BEST 'Real Military Arsenal' AK's EVER imported into the USA (Milled-Receiver & Steyr Hammer-Forged Barrel) - a REAL Arsenal of Bulgaria (not from Arsenal Inc. of Las Vegas) SLR-96MB (Factory Muzzle Brake model) - that once sold for around $500 in 1996 !

DON'T get 'Suckered' by the New Crop of Yugoslavian M70 'PAP' AK-47's which are PRONE to 'Catatrophic FAILURE' due to importer MILLING OUT the former 'Single-Stack' Yugo PAP M70 AK's to take Hi-Cap Mags - but the 'PAP' has a Narrow Trunnion - that when opened to accept Hi-Cap Mags - make the Rifle considerably WEAKER in the Critical Trunnion/Chamber area that sees the MOST STRESS of an AK-47's firing/usage cycle !!!

As Norinco & Poly-Tech of China build EXCELLENT AK's, and so does Hungary with their SA-85M AK's by F.E.G. (not AMD-65 'Kit Guns' by Century...), 'Real' Yugoslavian AK's - imported by Mitchell Arms of Santa Ana, CA in the 1980's, Egyptian Maadi AKM, ARM, RPM & RML models only (not the MISR & MISR-90 'creations' by Century Arms...), 'Real' Bulgarian AK's like the SA-93, SLR-95, SLR-96, SLR-101 & SLR-105, and 'Real' Romanian AK's like the Intrac MK-I (AK-47), MK-II (AK-74) & early SAR-1, SAR-2 & SAR-3 Rifles !

If the WASR-10 functions OK w/o 'Failure to Feed' or 'Failure to extract' problems - then it's worth $500 to some retailers - as many distributors are ALL SOLD OUT of this less-than-desirable AK-47 w/o dimples on its receiver for proper magazine alignment - as the WASR-10 tries to compensate for this with defeciency by having pieces of sheet metal welded into its magazine well - (see Google & You tube for more on issues SOME PEOPLE have with WASR-10 AK's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6H_sw-YKOc ) !!!

Still, besides the numerous problems that SOME have with WASR-10's - it's the LOWEST-PRICED AK-47 on the market & many Gun dealers & their 'victims' (uneducated buyers) ignore the WARRANTY NIGHTMARES that others have had with Century's WASR-10 Rifles - as some WASR-10's can be OK ?

The problem with Century Arms - could be a gamble with your time & your $$$ (that you won't have with a Norinco MAK-90, Hungarian SA-85M, or Bulgarian SA-93, SLR-95, etc.) - because even if the WASR-10 is new & the WASR-10 has problems - you won't get a new rifle from the FFL dealer who sold it to you if the rifle has problems & if the WASR-10 is used - how much $$$ do you want to spend for a gunsmith to fix the WASR-10 if you have no warranty ???

Also, on the other end of the AK spectrum - pictured below is a Russian Saiga 'IZ series' AK - that we constantly hear kids & others say, "I saw a 'Real' Russian AK-47 for $350 OR $400 or so..."

Oh really !!!


Unfortunately they're unable to accurately compare Sporter AK's like the Saiga IZ series (pictured below) to realize that after they convert the non-pistol Grip Saiga IZ AK-47 (pictured below) to have a standard Pistol Grip & standard or folding stock AK-47 buttstock & pistol grip (over $100 in most cases - which then makes their $350 bargain cost over $450...) - they'll still have a non-standard AK-47 that WON'T ACCEPT Standard AK-47 Mags/clips or drums - as special Surefire 30 round Mags COST OVER $40 a piece to fit in the Saiga IZ series AK-47 pictured below !!!
 
closest to an old school AKM would probably be the romanian or egyptian... egyptians are made on the same tooling the russian AKMs were made on, egypt purchased them from russia... any poor egyptian AK is probably a result of some half-attempt at putting together a parts kit from a company that rarely cares (like century)
 
Sergei Mosin said:
Because my AR needs something to glare at in the safe...

I'm not very familiar with the AK market, but I do have a pretty good idea of what I want: something as close to the original Soviet-pattern AK-47 or AKM as possible, in 7.62x39, with a fixed wooden stock and a bayonet lug. Any suggestions?
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I don't have either an AR or AK, but I now want both. The AR is the sophisticated choice of arms while the AK is the gutter rat. It can survive all kinds of missuse, take a lickin and keep on tickin. Seriously they're both great guns.
 
snake284 said:
I don't have either an AR or AK, but I now want both. The AR is the sophisticated choice of arms while the AK is the gutter rat. It can survive all kinds of missuse, take a lickin and keep on tickin. Seriously they're both great guns.
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You don't say? :)

I was an AR guy for a long time until I shot my friend's AK. Now I have one too.
I was watching the movie "Black Hawk Down" and it makes you want both!


DSCI0240.gif

you need to get one of each to really appreciate them. Each rifle are fun to shoot and have their own strong points.
 
From what I can ascertain...The Maadi is a truely great rifle. I would love to own one.

From my personal experience, I can say this:

1. Arsenal SAM-7 A1R (milled) Truely, this rifle was flawless. Fit, function, trigger, looks(black poly). I became unemployeed in 2009 and was forced to sell this rifle in order to take care of my family. (I purchased this rifle in 2005) It turns my stomach everytime I think about losing this AK. Yes, it was that NICE.

2. Waffen Werks AK 74: After 3 years I was finally able to purchase a new AK platform. This is a really nice rifle. Solid build. KG Gun Coat, NDS reciever, CL Barrell, dark plum unissued Bulgarian parts kit build. Is it the quality of the "Arsenal" milled? No!! Is it close? Well, kinda...It is a very nice, quality build. Dark plum furniture looks very good. Single hook Tapco G2 trigger, quick reset and 0 slap.

Anyhow guys, just thought I would share my experiences with you.

Good luck and good shooting,

Gunner
 
The new Century AKMs are not the same as their old WASRs...
The Polish under-folder has a NoDak receiver and a US (Green Mountain) barrel. Mine is super tight and fairly accurate....
 

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The wasrs shoot, function, the same..... the finish needs some work, but thats easy and fun to fix. for me the difference is price. In my OPINION, the upper limit for buying even a good AK is the price of a decent AR. In the neutered versions the AR is closer to the intended design, than the AK...IMO.


That said, I love my AKs. Hope you get one. It's your money, good luck.
 
i wanted to buy a quality ak, i wanted to get a stamped mak 90 with the intention to restore its original pistol grip configuration, but i ended finding a milled one with that problem already solved. Couldnt be happier with it. You can most certainly find a good AR for the same price as a high quality AK, but alot of the older, sought after models are rising in price and dont look like theyre going down anytime soon. Imo spending less isnt more when it comes to AKs. WASRs while functional are not desirable. With their prices creeping over $500 id much rather just spend more on a better ak variant. If your looking to retain value buy something that will never be imported again.

on a side note arsenal did release some slr101's. They are milled but the mag well was opened up at arsenal because they were single stacks. But if you want to get a milled ak with all the bells and whistles its a solid deal at right around a grand
 
^absolutely agree if you are looking at it from a collectors stand point.

I dont think any of them will go down in value. Some will start and stay higher....

I guess I'm viewing this from a range toy, truck gun, shtf, etc....
 
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