Hi WC145, all...
You'd menioned -
Understood...
Originally, all this began in my mind, in admiring my Model 1917 Colt New Service in .45 ACP, and, comparing it with it's rival, the S & W Model of 1917 in .45 ACP.
...and thinking..."Why ever did not Colt and S & W offer mid-frame Revolvers right then, or soon after, which using Half-Moon or Full Moon Clips, could chamber and fire .30 Mauser, 9mm Parabellum, .38 ACP or others?
I think they would have been very well received and appreciated all over the World...and would have sold well.
Both S & W and Colt could have ( and in my view, should have) began making and offering these by 1919, if not a lot earlier.
So...originally, what I wanted to make, or have made, is either a 'teens to 'twenties or even 'thirties Colt Army Special, or ditto S & W 'M&P', chambering the .38 ACP Cartridge, and, using Full Moon Clips to do it.
Or, a 'Snubbie' of either, chambering the 9mm Parabellum, with Full Moon Clips ( if having to 'Snub' the Army Special myself, since Colt did not seem to offer any Snubbies at that time...unless one went through 'Fitz' or did it one's self or had a Smith do it. )
Now...sadly, I am not confident either would stand the Pressures safely, but, maybe they would, I don't know.
Later...I began thinking, an S & W Model 10, Heavy Barrel, 4 inch, Square Butt, or, ditto in 3 inch Round Butt, would be a very nice Revolver in .38 Super, if using Full Moon Clips...and, or, chambering 9mm Para, and Full Moon Clips, and...thus began my Thread...
I like Full Moon Clips...and, I do not really feel drawn to other methods of chambering semi-rim or rimless Cartridges in a Revolver.
The S & W 940, while a fine Revolver, is of no interest to me, since it is around sixty to eighty years late as for S &W having had any savvy at all, and, because in their trying to be clever for the sake of clever, and at the expense of common sense and convenience, it does not relyon the forthright use of Full Moon Clips.
And, rather than patronize their remarkable tardyness to get with it, I'd far rather make my own, or, commission the modification to an able and savvy ( and one would hope, sympathetic ) Smith.
It is not a matter of having just anything which as a Revolver, would fire 9mm...for the sake of firing 9mm...rather, it is a matter for me, of only a very few Revolver kinds, I would want to have do so, for me to own, use, or carry them.
And really, the Revolver I would most wish to have chambering 9mm Para, would be an old, 'Round Front Sight' S & W M&P 'Snubby'...far as 9mm goes.
Probably, an S & W Model 13 would really be the best Candidate for me, if I wanted to convert to 9x23, or, to .38 Super, since I could expect it to have the strength
needed...and, I like it's looks, 'feel' and balance, same as I do the Heavy Barrel Model 10s.
So, while this conversation is academic, and anecdotal, and also practical, for me, it is also only about a very few possible Candidates for conversion...and of course, about understanding how various Cylinder Bore issues would be reconciled.
Now, an S & W 'Terrier' or 3 inch early J Frame with the 'Round' Front Sight...or, a short Barrel Colt 'Police Positive' ( ditto ) in 9mm Para, would also be appealing...if able tohandle the pressures, and, I doubt they would!
I have a Model 13 ( .357 Magnum, 4 inch Heavy Barrel, Square Butt ), and, I love and admire it for what it is...it is 'perfect' and excellent as what it is.
The 'Full Moon, .38 Super, Model 10, Heavy Barrel" ( if it is feasable, ) would be it's own thing...perfect for what it is, intrinsically interesting, and appealing to me.
If they'd made them, I'd buy one.
They did not...so...if I want one, I will have to have one converted.
Thus the brooding...
What fun..!
This is a good Thread, and good learning for me...good thinking, brainstorming...
Good discussion...
Thanks!
Phil
l v
You'd menioned -
The "step" is appropriate for a 9x23 round to headspace on. The cylinder can't be cut with a "step" for the 9mm to headspace on because it's already larger in diameter than the 9mm, hence the need for moonclips. To do what you're talking about you'd have to start with a smaller caliber cylinder than 9mm. Or you could just find yourself a S&W 940 and be done with it. They headspace on the case shoulder and don't require a moonclip except for ease of extraction, same as the Taurus 905.
Understood...
Originally, all this began in my mind, in admiring my Model 1917 Colt New Service in .45 ACP, and, comparing it with it's rival, the S & W Model of 1917 in .45 ACP.
...and thinking..."Why ever did not Colt and S & W offer mid-frame Revolvers right then, or soon after, which using Half-Moon or Full Moon Clips, could chamber and fire .30 Mauser, 9mm Parabellum, .38 ACP or others?
I think they would have been very well received and appreciated all over the World...and would have sold well.
Both S & W and Colt could have ( and in my view, should have) began making and offering these by 1919, if not a lot earlier.
So...originally, what I wanted to make, or have made, is either a 'teens to 'twenties or even 'thirties Colt Army Special, or ditto S & W 'M&P', chambering the .38 ACP Cartridge, and, using Full Moon Clips to do it.
Or, a 'Snubbie' of either, chambering the 9mm Parabellum, with Full Moon Clips ( if having to 'Snub' the Army Special myself, since Colt did not seem to offer any Snubbies at that time...unless one went through 'Fitz' or did it one's self or had a Smith do it. )
Now...sadly, I am not confident either would stand the Pressures safely, but, maybe they would, I don't know.
Later...I began thinking, an S & W Model 10, Heavy Barrel, 4 inch, Square Butt, or, ditto in 3 inch Round Butt, would be a very nice Revolver in .38 Super, if using Full Moon Clips...and, or, chambering 9mm Para, and Full Moon Clips, and...thus began my Thread...
I like Full Moon Clips...and, I do not really feel drawn to other methods of chambering semi-rim or rimless Cartridges in a Revolver.
The S & W 940, while a fine Revolver, is of no interest to me, since it is around sixty to eighty years late as for S &W having had any savvy at all, and, because in their trying to be clever for the sake of clever, and at the expense of common sense and convenience, it does not relyon the forthright use of Full Moon Clips.
And, rather than patronize their remarkable tardyness to get with it, I'd far rather make my own, or, commission the modification to an able and savvy ( and one would hope, sympathetic ) Smith.
It is not a matter of having just anything which as a Revolver, would fire 9mm...for the sake of firing 9mm...rather, it is a matter for me, of only a very few Revolver kinds, I would want to have do so, for me to own, use, or carry them.
And really, the Revolver I would most wish to have chambering 9mm Para, would be an old, 'Round Front Sight' S & W M&P 'Snubby'...far as 9mm goes.
Probably, an S & W Model 13 would really be the best Candidate for me, if I wanted to convert to 9x23, or, to .38 Super, since I could expect it to have the strength
needed...and, I like it's looks, 'feel' and balance, same as I do the Heavy Barrel Model 10s.
So, while this conversation is academic, and anecdotal, and also practical, for me, it is also only about a very few possible Candidates for conversion...and of course, about understanding how various Cylinder Bore issues would be reconciled.
Now, an S & W 'Terrier' or 3 inch early J Frame with the 'Round' Front Sight...or, a short Barrel Colt 'Police Positive' ( ditto ) in 9mm Para, would also be appealing...if able tohandle the pressures, and, I doubt they would!
I have a Model 13 ( .357 Magnum, 4 inch Heavy Barrel, Square Butt ), and, I love and admire it for what it is...it is 'perfect' and excellent as what it is.
The 'Full Moon, .38 Super, Model 10, Heavy Barrel" ( if it is feasable, ) would be it's own thing...perfect for what it is, intrinsically interesting, and appealing to me.
If they'd made them, I'd buy one.
They did not...so...if I want one, I will have to have one converted.
Thus the brooding...
What fun..!
This is a good Thread, and good learning for me...good thinking, brainstorming...
Good discussion...
Thanks!
Phil
l v