Cool Cartridge at the Range Today

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denton

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One of our shooters was ringing steel at 50 yards with a Civil War Maynard carbine. The cartridges were especially interesting: no primer, just a small hole at the rear of the case. It uses a conventional percussion cap, and the flame from the cap reaches through the small hole to ignite the black powder.

I noticed that he ran out of ammo. Apparently, that's not much of a problem. He simply poured black powder into the fired cases, put a bullet on top, put a fixture over the top (sort of like a Lee Loader) and tapped the bullet down with a small mallet.

During the cease fires, he was downrange picking up his bullets to re-cast.

20221104_123418.jpg
 
Very cool! Wouldn’t the hot gasses from the cap cut into the brass cartridge case quickly?
 
Usually you'll put a small (1/4") paper-label "dot" over the flashhole, which protects the
brass base somewhat and the the cap promptly punches though to ignite the BP.
(Same with Smith carbines too)

Last mostly forever with the Maynard's metal case....
 
I know I'm probably wrong and quite possibly insane but those things look weird for cartridges almost like they were turned on a lathe. Also that huge rim looks like it should make extraction a snap.
 
I know I'm probably wrong and quite possibly insane but those things look weird for cartridges almost like they were turned on a lathe. Also that huge rim looks like it should make extraction a snap.
They probably were large turned. When’s the last time you seen any for sale on the shelf? Lathe turning cases is common for stuff like this that can’t be made from any other existing case.
 
I seem to remember the primers were basically like a roll of caps for a kid's cap gun. Paper rolls with dots of priming material.

Edit: Oops. that was for percussion rifles, not the cartridge type. But the system was invented by Dr. Maynard, a dentist.

OP: did you happen to take a photo of the rifle?
 
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I seem to remember the primers were basically like a roll of caps for a kid's cap gun. Paper rolls with dots of priming material.

Edit: Oops. that was for percussion rifles, not the cartridge type. But the system was invented by Dr. Maynard, a dentist.

OP: did you happen to take a photo of the rifle?

They were. The Army attempted to apply the Maynard system to the .58 cal Springfield rifle at one point, but dropped the idea after they found out that the caps didn't handle damp too well.
 
I don't want to hijack this thread any more than necessary but since it's relatively pertinent, here's an even odder-looking cartridge case used by another popular ACW carbine. It also had a fairly good gas seal system and was used in larger numbers than the Maynard. I just purchased one from a guy who specializes in ACW firearms and acquired a book to learn as much as I could about it.

What I acquired was a very nice 5th model Burnside carbine (circa 1863/4) in good shooting condition. Burnside's design is only like the Maynard in that it has no integral primer--just a small vent hole at the rear, but the gas seal system is totally different. It uses a reverse taper for the body with a large obturating ring at the mouth of the cartridge. A lot of people think a loaded Burnside round looks a little like an ice cream cone.

My cases also came from S & S as did the cast lead .54 cal conical bullets they stock. Even easier than Maynard, the Burnside cartridges can be reloaded on the fly since they really don't even need a hammer to load. Bullet depth is controlled by a turned step inside the cartridge and any waxy bullet lube seems adequate to hold the bullet in place. I also just received a Lee two cavity .562 cal round ball mold from a seller on eBay to use in the future. Unlike the Maynard, the Burnside doesn't resemble anything used after metallic cartridges became commonplace.

In 1865, the Burnside company stopped making their carbine to instead fill a new contract with the US government making the M1865 Spencer. These were used by the US cavalry in the early years of what is now referred to as the "Indian wars" period.

With 55,000 units produced and issued, the Burnside was the 2nd most used breech-loading single-shot carbine after the Sharps. There were only about 22,000 of the Maynards produced but I've not come across any reasons yet why more Burnsides were purchased than the Maynards. The Burnsides did have their hammer mounted on a side lock so the rear sight wasn't crowded and it also came with a wood forearm starting with the 3rd model. Black powder can heat up a barrel pretty fast with continued firing.

The Burnside did not use a round ball historically but according to some of the shooters at N-SSA and the linked video below, the gun is quite accurate with this particular round ball. To cast the conicals one has to order a very expensive custom mold plus handles. At $5.50 per cartridge, the brass also isn't exactly cheap but then they will supposedly last for a lot of reloads. I'll probably hand anneal the mouth ends after a few shots to make sure they last longer.

Here's what the loaded cases looked like using the conical bullets from S&S with 2 lube grooves. The wooden block came out of a repro leather carbine cartridge case identical to the one used in the previous video. I used 40 grains of 2 FFg Goex which left room for a .45 cal Oxyoke unlubed felt wad under the lubed projectile. The FFg grain size is large enough that the powder won't leak out of the vent hole.
8Ehfi6o.jpg

Below is a Youtube video that the "Cap and Ball" guy from Hungary did on shooting the Burnside using the round ball. There were no cases available in Europe, so while he was waiting on a shipment from the US, he used his own lathe to turn a few. I will eventually cast some of the round balls with my Lee mold to try also.

Cap & Ball's video


As mentioned, I don't want to hijack the thread any further but if Denton says it's OK, I will post some pictures of my new (158 year old ) carbine.

Cheers
 
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I don't want to hijack this thread any more than necessary but since it's relatively pertinent, here's an even odder-looking cartridge case used by another popular ACW carbine. It also had a fairly good gas seal system and was used in larger numbers than the Maynard. I just purchased one from a guy who specializes in ACW firearms and acquired a book to learn as much as I could about it.

What I acquired was a very nice 5th model Burnside carbine (circa 1863/4) in good shooting condition. Burnside's design is only like the Maynard in that it has no integral primer--just a small vent hole at the rear, but the gas seal system is totally different. It uses a reverse taper for the body with a large obturating ring at the mouth of the cartridge. A lot of people think a loaded Burnside round looks a little like an ice cream cone.

My cases also came from S & S as did the cast lead .54 cal conical bullets they stock. Even easier than Maynard, the Burnside cartridges can be reloaded on the fly since they really don't even need a hammer to load. Bullet depth is controlled by a turned step inside the cartridge and any waxy bullet lube seems adequate to hold the bullet in place. I also just received a Lee two cavity .562 cal round ball mold from a seller on eBay to use in the future. Unlike the Maynard, the Burnside doesn't resemble anything used after metallic cartridges became commonplace.

In 1865, the Burnside company stopped making their carbine to instead fill a new contract with the US government making the M1865 Spencer. These were used by the US cavalry in the early years of what is now referred to as the "Indian wars" period.

With 55,000 units produced and issued, the Burnside was the 2nd most used breech-loading single-shot carbine after the Sharps. There were only about 22,000 of the Maynards produced but I've not come across any reasons yet why more Burnsides were purchased than the Maynards. The Burnsides did have their hammer mounted on a side lock so the rear sight wasn't crowded and it also came with a wood forearm starting with the 3rd model. Black powder can heat up a barrel pretty fast with continued firing.

The Burnside did not use a round ball historically but according to some of the shooters at N-SSA and the linked video below, the gun is quite accurate with this particular round ball. To cast the conicals one has to order a very expensive custom mold plus handles. At $5.50 per cartridge, the brass also isn't exactly cheap but then they will supposedly last for a lot of reloads. I'll probably hand anneal the mouth ends after a few shots to make sure they last longer.

Here's what the loaded cases looked like using the conical bullets from S&S with 2 lube grooves. The wooden block came out of a repro leather carbine cartridge case identical to the one used in the previous video. I used 40 grains of 2 FFg Goex which left room for a .45 cal Oxyoke unlubed felt wad under the lubed projectile. The FFg grain size is large enough that the powder won't leak out of the vent hole.
View attachment 1113125

Below is a Youtube video that the "Cap and Ball" guy from Hungary did on shooting the Burnside using the round ball. There were no cases available in Europe, so while he was waiting on a shipment from the US, he used his own lathe to turn a few. I will eventually cast some of the round balls with my Lee mold to try also.

Cap & Ball's video


As mentioned, I don't want to hijack the thread any further but if Denton says it's OK, I will post some pictures of my new (158 year old ) carbine.

Cheers


I think it's fascinating, and I'm glad for the information.
 
When Maynard went to self contained centerfire ammo in 1873, the cases still had large rims to grab and pull out, the design didn't get an extractor and normal looking rims until 1882. They stayed in production until 1890.
A rather odd looking gun, it lasted because of a reputation for quality barrels and accuracy.
Interchangeable barrel sets probably helped, too.
 
Ok, here are some pictures of my "new to me" Burnside.
ZDaax2t.jpg

The lock side is still showing some of the original case colors on the lock, hammer, and frame. The bore is nice and shiny with well-defined twist gain rifling. I rate it at about an 8 out of 10. Notice the breech block lever is still showing some bluing with the edges turning to plum brown.
HfpKXsU.jpg

The ring bar side is just a mottled gray but then this side gets the most abuse from the sling ring and carabiner-style attachment of the sling.
jfWcw9S.jpg

Here's a shot of the butt stock wrist still showing the original cartouches. On the left is the ordnance acceptance stamp HDH for Henry D Hastings and on the right is GC or George Curtis as a sub-inspector.
EGWP1eR.jpg

This is a shot looking down at the closed breech block with the serial number. The top tang/strap is still showing most of its fire bluing while the block still shows its rust bluing with some minor rust speckling. The rear sight is a simple L shape with a short-range leaf shown. When flipped up one may sight through an aperture in the middle of the tall leaf for mid-range and the top for long-range.
2LmCjUn.jpg

Here is the breech opened with an unloaded case showing how the cartridge loads. I took this before I had any of the bullets on hand. The breech block has a cone-shaped chamber to hold the matching part of the cartridge plus the lower half of the gas seal ring. The rear of the barrel was machined to accept the front half of said gas seal ring plus a short neck. It's supposed to work quite well to prevent gas leaks but since I haven't been to the range yet, I can't testify to that aspect.
2R1P7EE.jpg


I should mention here that this carbine was invented by, and named for, Ambrose Burnside who rose to the rank of Major General during the ACW. Burnside--a West Point graduate came up with the design of his carbine early in the 1850s and after having a prototype made resigned his commission to pursue its manufacture. Unfortunately, due to several failed attempts to get manufacturing started, and a failure to get any real sizable government contracts--all complicated by the fact that his first factory burned to the ground, Burnside who was near bankruptcy sold off the rights to his patent and all interest in the business to his partners. After working a few years in railroad management he eventually rejoined the US Army when the war started.

Burnside's former partners finally managed to get the business off the ground and eventually managed to secure several profitable contracts over the course of the war. However, since Burnside had sold all his interests, he subsequently never received any royalties or profits from the carbine that bore his name. His military career was nothing to write home about either but he did well in private life after the war. He managed to serve as director of a couple of railroads, was elected to three one-year terms as the governor of Rhode Island, and then two terms as a US senator from the state until his death in 1881. He was also the first president of the NRA.

Lastly, here's a group shot of my carbine with some reproduction leather including the carbine cartridge box mentioned.
TgqrT9d.jpg

Cheers
 
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Burnside designed his rifle/carbine to be an improvement on the long arm he used early in his career, the Hall. The breech loading hall carbine was an improvement over muzzle loaders but not much. There was no provision to block or shield the gases of combustion that would escape between the pivoting breech and the barrel mere inches from one’s eyes. It did not make for easy shooting. The round collar on the Burnside cartridge was the gas seal. The breech block has a rear section that slides slightly to the rear to help dislodge the fired case from the chamber. An easy way to extract the empty case from the breechblock is to push another case into the fired one, twist and pull. On some battlefields they would find chains of empty Burnside cartridges.


The round ball is an accurate load and can easily drop small game.


Kevin
 
it surprises me that they could not figure out to put the cap where the touch hole was after sizing it to fit.
 
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