• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Cop dies in training accident

Status
Not open for further replies.
"This demonstrates the dangers that police officers face on our behalf."

Shouldn't that read:
"This demonstrates the dangers that citizens face when improperly trained police officers play with guns." :D

Couldn't resist....sorry
 
Being a policeman in England is sure dangerous, All that gunfire from their peers."Home Secretary Jacqui Smith ...This demonstrates the dangers that police officers face on our behalf. ...".
 
This is not strictly gun related. What it is, is cop-bashing-baiting related.

Way to take the high road.

In fact, one might reasonably argue that if the training involves no risk whatsoever, it's probably no good.
 
In fact, one might reasonably argue that if the training involves no risk whatsoever, it's probably no good.

Where have you been hiding? That's like sooo 1980s dude.
 
That May Be a Matter of Context

This is not strictly gun related. What it is, is cop-bashing-baiting related.
Recent communication from John Farnam suggests that those British constables who show serious interest in developing skill with firearms find themselves reassigned from armed duty. In its proper context, this tragedy should serve as an indictment of the mentality of the British police bureaucracy, which appears to encourage and even reward incompetence with firearms (in stark contradiction to some of the excellent firearms training in parts of the British military). Thus, we should view the posting as bashing the politicaly correct administrators, not the cops in general.
 
I don't read it as cop-bashing. On one hand, it may be that this would have happened anywhere, whether in gun-banning Britain or the most gun-friendly parts of America. On the other, though, when you're training people who almost certainly don't properly understand guns accidents are likely to be more common. It's tragic either way, but it may have been avoidable.
 
I didn't read it as cop-bashing either and I'm usually one of the first to do so.

I read it more along the lines of "This is what happens when you take firearms away from the citizens.". The police get complacent and training suffers.
 
I don't think it's cop bashing.

I read this as an indicator that Britain overall is having issues with understanding firearms and firearm safety.
 
Speaking as one who is generally accused of being a cop basher, I don't see how this thread is cop bashing or an indictement of England's fire arm training, given that no one seems to have any details
 
when a population grows up without guns in their possession, it leaves no one with proper familiarity with guns to be able to use them...

training is fine and good, but many of the people here in the US have had at least some basic firearms knowledge since they were very young... this makes them better able to adapt to using one on a daily basis... and better able to teach others the nuances they have learned over the years..
 
Looks like the incident wasn't even at a range, but they were doing some sort of tactical exercises in a warehouse. Pretty strange.
 
I looked at the replies to this thread- are you people really on here at 7, 8, 9 o'clock in the morning? Get a job.
 
the foot ,I looked at the replies to this thread- are you people really on here at 7, 8, 9 o'clock in the morning? Get a job


you see, the foot, not everyone has a nine to five job, i work third shift, normaly get home around 08:45 am, guess what the first thing i do is , turn on the computer and see whats been posted, just cause someone posts at unusual times dont make assumptions as to their character.
 
Someone upthread mentioned John Farnam's recent observation on the state of firearms training in the UK. Here is what he said:

10 Apr 08

Incompetence by choice. This from an LEO friend in the UK:

"In the UK, when an officer displays the slightest interest in firearms, he is automatically disqualified from all armed assignments. In addition, his career is toast at that point, as knowledge of firearms, let alone shooting and gun-handling skills, constitutes a permanent bar to promotion.

One of our officers, who was armed, was subsequently disarmed (removed from our Armed-Police Group) because of his 'unhealthy interest'in developing individual skill with weapons!

Over here, the more competent you aspire to be, the less suitable you are to be armed. Only dithering buffoons need apply!"

Comment: During the decline of any civilization, we have the requiem "Incompetence-is-a-Virtue" stage, where the skilled, dedicated, and heroic are habitually punished and marginalized, while unqualified, incapable, pandering pretenders unfailingly ascend to high positions.

The British proudly remind us that their Island has not been successfully invaded since 1066. They better pray the next invaders are imbeciles, because they'll have only blundering bunglers standing in their way!

/John

And from a few weeks ago:

20 Mar 08

You can't have it both ways! From a UK newspaper:

"The number of armed police officers accidentally shooting themselves , and colleagues, has soared in the past five years. Now, nearly half of all injuries caused by police shootings are the result of officers blasting themselves or a colleague, often during bungled training and demonstrations... these disturbing statistics call into question competence and training "

Comment:

Do they ever!

As British police are, of necessity, increasingly armed, they are also increasingly embarrassed with the arrogant criticism they've so self-righteously leveled at American police over the years for being likewise armed. It seems the chickens have now come home to roost!

Unfortunately, as UK police surreptitiously acquire rifles and pistols, they' ve discovered that there is no one to provide them with competent training, since UK's once-proud Gun Culture, indeed their entire Warrior Culture, has been long-since suffocated by paranoid politicians who, like politicians everywhere, are frightened to death of armed citizens. The entire body ofmodern gun knowledge, that we take for granted in America, is unavailable to them. And, they are so apprehensive of it, and us, they're too frightened, proud, and ashamed to ask for "dangerous enlightenment." They aremuch more comfortable with "safe ignorance," even while shooting themselves with embarrassing frequency!

Newly-armed cops, who heretofore knew little about guns, have as "instructors " only irrelevant, ossified target shooters, who also know little about guns, nothing about fighting, and absolutely nothing about safe gun-handling, concealed-carry, and living with guns.

In addition, UK politicians don't trust cops any more than they trust citizens. So, there is precious little live-fire training, and "armed" cops are only armed when working. Continuous concealed carrying is reserved for only an "elite" few. The rest have little opportunity to become familiar with their guns. They only get to be afraid of them.

There will be no improvement in the UK any time soon, because there is no political benefit associated with gun-competence getting any better . Although newspapers consider this ND epidemic a "problem," politicians don't, so long as they personally are not endangered. A few injured officers and citizens are useful fodder for crocodile-tear speeches, but are otherwise of no real concern.

As always, nothing will change, until citizens demand it.

/John
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top