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Cops gun would not go off.

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litman252

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Aug 2, 2003
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681
Location
Janesville Wis.
Officer who was stabbed pulled trigger 6 times

(Published Tuesday, May 18, 2004 10:37:36 AM CDT)

By Sid Schwartz/Gazette Staff


Andrew Smith


Justyn Fischer

Original story, http://gazetteextra.com/officerstabbed051804.asp

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Janesville police officer Andrew Smith pulled the trigger on his pistol a half dozen times, but it never fired while he fought with the man who eventually stabbed him in the neck, according to court documents.

Justyn P. Fischer, 28, of 624 Liberty Ave., Beloit, was charged Monday with attempted murder while armed as a habitual criminal. If convicted, he faces a maximum of 71 years in prison.

Police on Monday examined and test fired Smith's .40-caliber Smith & Wesson Sigma semiautomatic pistol.

"The weapon was found to be operating properly," Police Chief George Brunner said. "There were no problems with firing the weapon during the test. The department is continuing to review the situation."

After his arrest, Fischer told investigators he grabbed the barrel of Smith's weapon during their struggle.

John Goepfert, owner of Goepfert's Purchasing House, 1901 Holiday Drive, Janesville, said Smith's gun probably wouldn't fire because Fischer somehow interfered with the weapon's action.

It that's true, the gun's trigger would have remained back and ineffectual after Smith's first attempt to shoot. The trigger would not have reset unless Smith slid the action, Goepfert said.

Every semiautomatic pistol ever made-not just the model used by Janesville police-is susceptible to misfires if its action is interfered with while the trigger is pulled, Goepfert said.

Old-fashioned revolvers are even more susceptible, he said.

"Each firearm design has a weak spot," Goepfert said.

Smith's struggle with Fischer started after Smith was dispatched at 3:51 a.m. Thursday for a report of a vehicle break-in in progress in the 3200 block of Turnberrry Drive on Janesville's far south side.

Fischer later told investigators that a friend had told him about a yellow pickup truck on that street that had a nice stereo system. While in the truck trying to steal the stereo, Fischer saw what he believed was a police officer approaching, so he ran, according to the complaint.

Smith said he chased the suspect through backyards for about a block before tackling him. The two men were wrestling on the ground when Smith was struck in the forehead, causing him to see stars, according to the criminal complaint.

Smith could see the man holding something in his hand, and Smith feared for his life, according to the complaint.

The officer pulled his pistol from its holster, "pushed it towards the subject's midsection and pulled the trigger," but the gun did not go off, the complaint reads.

Smith pulled the trigger twice more without the gun firing before he saw what looked like a shiny screwdriver in the man's right hand.

He pulled the trigger three more times, but the gun still would not fire, according to the complaint.

That's when Smith felt a "strong blow" to his right jaw, and he realized he'd been stabbed with the screwdriver, according to the complaint.

The blade of the screwdriver poked the chain for Smith's whistle and the collar of his uniform an inch deep into his flesh, according to the complaint.

After he was stabbed in the head three or four more times, Smith rolled onto his side to cover his firearm, and the suspect fled.

Smith later was treated and released at Mercy Hospital in Janesville.

Police surrounded the area, but the suspect escaped.

About a half hour later, a car was stolen from outside a home on O'Leary Road about 18 miles west of where Smith was stabbed. The car, which Fischer is accused of stealing, later was found in Beloit, according to Rock County Sheriff's Department reports.

While police searched for Fischer later Thursday, they spoke with a friend of his in Clinton. The friend said Fischer had been calling him on a cell phone, which police traced as being owned by Suzanne A. Bickle, 24, of 13152 Linden Ave., Janesville.

Police executed a search warrant at Bickle's home at 8 p.m. Thursday and arrested Fischer.

Bickle was charged Monday with harboring or aiding a felon. She told police she had driven to Beloit on Thursday morning and given Fischer a ride back to her Janesville home.

Fischer had told her he'd "had a physical conflict with a police officer," and she let him stay at her home while she went to work at a Janesville restaurant, according to the complaint.

In court Monday, Fischer was ordered held in the Rock County Jail on a $50,000 cash bond. He is due in court next at 1 p.m. Monday.

Bickle was released on a signature bond. She is due in court next at 1 p.m. Wednesday.

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What do ya think???
 
I know it will come up so i might as well say it why the hell was the cop using a sigma? Granted not saying its the guns fault since he just kept pulling the trigger but still :banghead:
 
That's crazy. My only thought was that when he grabbed the barrel, it put the gun out of battery (that's the right word, right?) But, it seems that issue was addressed in that the trigger would not reset. And being the complete opposite of a gun expert :D I have no idea what could have happened.

At least the cop was okay.
 
There are a number of reasons the S&W Sigma might not have fired ...

But there is no good reason the officer shouldn't have been carrying a back-up ... just in case what happened did.

He is lucky to be alive.
 
Possibly "pushing the weapon towards...the midsection" might have actually put the front of the weapon up against the perp, the pressure holding it (slightly) out of battery, and not allowing it to fire ?

Just my $.02.......
 
If convicted, he faces a maximum of 71 years in prison.
The minimum should be at least 70 years. But somehow I doubt it is.

I wish the reposters would give us a reasonable number, such as the Minimum number of years he must serve. 71 years is just a feel good number so most clueless citizens will think the system works.
 
My guess also is that muzzle contact with the perp pushed the slide out of battery and failed to fire due to trigger not resetting. The wrestling match on the ground prevented the officer from being able to do an effective two-handed FTF drill.
 
After reading the story My first guess would be that the gun was out of battery.

I am curious to know why the Janesvill PD is still using Sigmas? My Dad has a Sigma in 9mm that is a decent gun for the money, but you would think they could spend a little more and get themselves some better guns. My vote would be for an XD or maybe a Glock. My expierence with the Sigma is they have allor more recoil then most of the other polymer guns I have fired. I don't remember if the Sigma is a striker fired, or DAO gun. If it was a DAO you would think as soon as it was not contacting the bad guy's body he would have been able make the gun fire. If it is a striker fired gun her would have had to done a FTF drill which in most cases does require two hands.
 
TAP, RACK, BANG!!!

Although, the officer may not have had the time or space to do that.

GT
 
From the article: "Every semiautomatic pistol ever made-not just the model used by Janesville police-is susceptible to misfires if its action is interfered with while the trigger is pulled, Goepfert said.

Old-fashioned revolvers are even more susceptible, he said."

Really? Are they? Why are revolvers more susceptible? (I really have no idea...)
 
Chris, my thoughts were the same as yours. Why would a revolver be more susceptible...

The only thing I could come up with is that they are saying, "if its action is interfered with while the trigger is pulled". Maybe, because on a revolver, you have a "big" cylinder, they could just grab it and keep it from rotating to the next shot?

I really have no idea. Anyone more knowledgeable than us know why?

I do know that revolvers are capable of being pressed HARD into a person, and multiple shots can be fired. There is no chance of it going out of battery.

I'm stumped why they would be more problematic...
 
Chris are you using a little sarcasm with your statement or would you like me to explain the how easy it is to stop a revolver fired double action.??
 
Explain it to me. The things I could think of are grabbing the cylinder, or grabbing the hammer. THough, that wouldn't seem possible on an enclosed hammer.
 
Wheel guns (revolvers) are more susceptable to this specific problem in that if you grab the cylinder tightly enough, it will not rotate. A DA revolver must rotate BEFORE it will fire.

Any chance that the cop was carrying (intentionally or unintentionally) with the chamber empty? There are some DA pistols that will recock the striker each time the trigger is pulled even w/o cycling the slide. However, if the chamber is empty, only racking the slide will fill it.
 
Plinkerton you are 100% correct in your assumption. If someone is trying to pull the trigger on a double action revolver it is impossible to pull the trigger if someone is holding on to the cylinder. Even a child could stop you from shooting a double action revolver by holding the cylinder. DO NOT TRY THIS IF THE REVOLVER IS COCKED it will not work you will get shot. If the gun is cocked your best bet is to get something between the hammer and the frame.
 
I suppose if the BG had his hand around the cylinder on a revolver and grasping it very tightly it would be very difficult to squeeze the trigger hard enough to get the cylinder to turn. I'll have to give it a try.

There are devices available that attach to the pistol frame that support a plate which goes in front of the muzzle. So when the muzzle is pushed up against a soft object the slide will not go out of battery and have the disconnect do what it suppose to. I have seen them on SIG pistols but I cannot remember who made them. They also had a laser built into them.
 
Cylinder grab.

We were taught that if someone has grabed our revolver and the cylinder wouldn't turn to pull hard on the trigger. Push the gun toward the assailant and then twist the revolver back and forth. As soon as the grip was relaxed there would then be a loud boom usually followed by the assailant relaxing his grip even more.

The other way is to pull hard on the trigger while pulling the hammer at the same time. You can get a fair amount of leverage that way.

No matter what you keep jabbing the assailant with the muzzle.
 
XD40EZO if you do have a XD I would say you are a whole lot better off then settleing for a Simga.
 
To take another tack, its also possible the cop hadn't done proper maintenance on his gun. If the primers on his carry ammo went bad because of prolonged exposure to sweat or cleaning compounds, then he would also be up a creek. Fresh ammo at the lab would have worked fine though. I've known more than a few cops that never changed their ammo or cleaned their guns unfortunately.
 
Ah, OK, that makes sense (thanks, Sturm, and no sarcasm intended, I'm just a little slow.... :D) By holding the cylinder, you can keep it from turning and firing.

I guess the article implied there was a way to "knock" a revolver out of battery...it seems you would need to apply constant pressure to the cylinder to keep it from firing, but one well-placed knock and a semi can be rendered unfireable.
 
Id vote for the "he probably didnt have a round chambered" theory.A lot of LEO's are really clueless about the tool they expect to protect their life.If there had been a round chambered, doesnt a Sigma have second strike capability?
 
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