County seizes son for medical care - local report

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Sindawe

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Justin said:
If another source such as a local news paper or tv station reports on this story, feel free to start another thread.

Here ya'll go. "Dynamic entry" now done for childhood bumbs and bruises. :mad:

County seizes son for medical care

Father says his family's rights were violated

By Pete Fowler
January 8, 2008

NEW CASTLE - The Garfield County All Hazards Response Team broke down Tom Shiflett's door Friday night and, following a court order, took his son for medical treatment.

The doctor's recommendation: Take Tylenol and apply ice to the bruises. The boy was back home a few hours later.

Authorities said they had reason to believe Shiflett mistreated his 11-year-old son, Jon, by failing to provide him proper medical care for a head injury. But Shiflett says his privacy and his rights were invaded, and that he has the right and the skill to treat his son himself. Shiflett, 62, said he served as a medic in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive.

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"Who in the world puts a stipulation on how adequate a person is to care for an injury?" Shiflett asked.

Speaking about the incident from his home in the Apple Tree Park on Monday, Shiflett was very upset. Perhaps most offensive, Shiflett said, was that law enforcement didn't announce there was a warrant before breaking into his home south of New Castle.

"I would have let them in," he said. "It was traumatic to my children, and it's unnecessary."

His spouse, Tina, and his six of 10 kids who are still at home were shocked at the manner of entry. Tina said law enforcement, wearing masks, broke down their door with a battering ram and pointed guns in her children's faces.

"They didn't need to bash into my home and slam my kids to the floor," Tina said, adding later, "I think they get a kick out of this."

She said law enforcement threatened criminal charges should the family even try to follow Jon or find out where he was taken. Jon was returned hours later, around 2:30 a.m. Saturday.

"In all there was not one shred of evidence found that we had done anything wrong or that Jon had not been properly cared for at home," Tina said.

According to a copy of Jon's patient aftercare instructions, a physician recommended Jon drink fluids, take Tylenol, use ice and keep his cuts from his injury clean. Jon still had a nasty-looking black eye and visible bruising on his face Monday after having been hurt in a fall on Thursday.

Jon injured himself by grabbing onto the handle of a moving car his sister was driving and falling. Shiflett and his family said Shiflett ran down the street, checked Jon for injuries and brought him back into their home, where they prayed, applied ice to his head and monitored his condition.

Someone - possibly a neighbor - called paramedics. Shiflett said paramedics looked at Jon after coming through an open front door uninvited. Shiflett told them he didn't want them to treat Jon and asked them to leave.

Friday morning, caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services arrived. Shiflett allowed them to look at Jon briefly but refused to allow them to take his son for treatment or medical evaluation.

Ross Talbott, who owns the Apple Tree Mobile Home Park and rents to Shiflett, said, "I thought it was an incredibly stupid power move by people who went in there misinformed and ill-informed. I think they violated their personal rights, their constitutional rights and their rights to family."

Talbott also writes a freelance column for the Post Independent.

"I've been (Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario's) longtime supporter, but I tell you what, to send a SWAT team down there was just absolutely over the hill," he said. "Inappropriate is not nearly strong enough a word. It was gross irresponsibility and stupidity. ... Is this Russia? I don't know what we're coming to when they think your kid needs medical help and they send a SWAT team."

Community relations sheriff's deputy Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.

Phone messages to Vallario were not returned Monday afternoon.

A search warrant and order for medical treatment says there was good reason to believe Jon needed treatment. It states that two social services caseworkers tried to explain to Tom Shiflett they believed the boy needed medical treatment after observing injuries including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They offered to pay for treatment, and said they would have to obtain a court order for treatment if they couldn't get Shiflett's consent, the warrant says.

"Shiflett shouted at this worker and advised this worker that if he obtained a court order, he better 'bring an army,'" the warrant states.

A first responder with West Care Ambulance wrote in an affidavit that she and others in an ambulance crew also believed the boy needed medical treatment.

The responder wrote that paramedics left the residence for fear of their safety after Tom Shiflett refused to let them treat his son and became "verbally abusive" to the ambulance crew.

But Talbott said he was there when paramedics responded, and that Shiflett was not yelling or acting abusive. He only asked them to leave, Talbott said, and paramedics were in fact acting belligerent. Shiflett says authorities had no right to enter his home uninvited and without announcing they had a warrant.

"When American law allows federal and state agencies to come in a home and confiscate family, there is something wrong with our system," Shiflett said. "If I can find a law firm or lawyer that can take this pro bono, because I have no money, I'm going to sue everyone on that warrant."

Garfield County Director of Social Services Lynn Rennick said social services is legally required to intervene when it receives a report about possible mistreatment of children, and that sometimes court orders are necessary. She wouldn't discuss any specific case.

Asked what he thought of being taken for medical treatment after the break-in, Jon said, "I think it's ridiculous. There's no reason for it."

Contact Pete Fowler: 384-9121

Source: http://www.postindependent.com/article/20080108/VALLEYNEWS/248366321
 
I said it before, I'll say it again...


... is this still America?



Just chilling.
 
Community relations sheriff's deputy Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.

Well, this is certainly an abuse of power, and several heads need to roll over this, but just ignoring a court order is sort of asking to bring things to a head like this.

Have to wonder if the father here didn't get exactly what he wanted in some respects.

Many folks bear responsibility here, and many need to be in a world of trouble over this, but the father bears a little too.

... is this still America?

Unfortunately it does appear the system was followed. Deputies went out with a court order which was then ignored and then enforced involuntarily.

This could have been handled less violently with the tiniest flexibility from the father it seems like.

Follow the court order, THEN lawyer up and sue the hell out of them for violating your First Amendment rights to freedom of religion rather than force it to this kind of thing.
 
So, a very real question:

Courts have generally (with exceptions) held that if you resist a home invasion that turns out to be the police, you aren't responsible for their injuries if you had no reason to expect the police to be in your home (no warrant for you, etc.), the idea being that innocent citizens don't reasonably expect their homes to be raided.

If Shiflett had resisted--or if it happens again, and the homeowner resists what appears to be a violent home invasion--what would be the legal ramifications? In this case in particular, the paramedics had looked him over and decided he was okay, so that would seem--from the Shiflett's point of view--to end the situation, so he would have no reason to expect a SWAT raid. Even without that, should a reasonable man expect a SWAT raid if his kid falls down?

This is potentially a very thorny issue, legally; I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the officers and attorneys on this one.


Note: I just noticed the part about Shiflett receiving a court order; that changes everything. However, the question stands as written: if he weren't informed, what would the situation be?
 
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This could have been handled less violently with the tiniest flexibility from the father it seems like.

Follow the court order, THEN lawyer up and sue the hell out of them for violating your First Amendment rights to freedom of religion rather than force it to this kind of thing.

Maybe so, but this is just frightening that a couple of paramedics (who had no right to get involved in the first place) can start this kind of chain of events...

It's just scary.
 
Follow the court order, THEN lawyer up and sue the hell out of them for violating your First Amendment rights to freedom of religion rather than force it to this kind of thing.

A lot of people do not have the funds or time to fight these kind of things in court. And even if you win a suit on something like this, the chance of getting any money out of it is close to nil.

And by acquiescing to the court order, you have all but acknowledged its legitimacy. the real answer is to get a serious effort underway to either recall the judge that signed such an order, or get him replaced at the next election. maybe take some action along those lines with the sheriff as well. thats the only thing these clowns care about.
 
And by acquiescing to the court order, you have all but acknowledged its legitimacy.

Court orders ARE legitimate, always. It's called anarchy when you are at a place where you can pick and choose which ones you want to follow.

If you want to fight a court order you do it after the fact, or somehow inside the same system. You can't tell them to go to hell and hope they leave you alone unless you WANT things to end like this one.

And even if you win a suit on something like this, the chance of getting any money out of it is close to nil.

If you are suing over this for the money then you are missing the point anyway. This is about stopping abuse and punishing those responsible.

Maybe so, but this is just frightening that a couple of paramedics (who had no right to get involved in the first place) can start this kind of chain of events...

It's just scary.

Absolutely, which is why serious lawyering up and lawsuits need to happen now. There are lots of groups out there to fight this kind of abuse. You have to fight it the right way though.
 
He probably thought the threat of a court order was some kind of joke, judging by his response. I remember back when I was a kid, parents could make a judgement call on medical issues with children. Looks to me like the state is staring to overstep its bounds.
 
Absolutely, which is why serious lawyering up and lawsuits need to happen now. There are lots of groups out there to fight this kind of abuse. You have to fight it the right way though.

This is true. However, had he acquiesced to the court order, likely nothing would have happened as he has already stated he had no money to pursue this. I hope the results of the legal action puts a chill in social workers/police forces/swat teams/judges that would even CONSIDER something like this.
 
Recently, a lawsuit was filed on behalf of a young boy who was starved by ma and step-pa, here in Washington...The suit alleges the state knew that there were "food issues" in the home and therefore should've acted, but alas didn't...


I don't know why a regular patrol deputy didn't just go over to enforce the order, but mayhaps there is more than meets the eye... Like a "If you sons a beeches come over I'm gonna shoot, cram that court order..." etc... Police don't always release such factoids when say, prepping a case for making terroristic threats against a person or themselves... There were apparent indicators of serious injury as well, to the EMT's... Who called the emts? The neighbors, maybe they saw something else going on... Car doorhandle vs. a good old fashioned fall into a door knob.... I wonder if the dad refused to sign a release doc with the emt's? Probably, as those who find medical treatment contrary to religious beliefs often find lawsuits just fine with their God.

Injuries that could've been sumissed to be abuse, hmmm, what is the "jack-booted state" to do...? Some would seemingly want it to be alright to say, molest, abuse, or rape children, so long as they're your own, or if say you married them on a fundamentalist compound after an arranged marriage... Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a happy medium to be found in alot of cases, but the law is the law, whether or not justice is applied...

"Follow the court order, THEN lawyer up and sue the hell out of them for violating your First Amendment rights to freedom of religion rather than force it to this kind of thing." exactly... good point from a previous poster...
 
I won't argue the legality of the warrants or judge the father's course of action, but if the father brandished no weapons, made no violent threats, why the swat team in full gear? We use police negotiators for violent criminals who have hostages, etc., but bust the front door down for this incident. Maybe I've missed something in the article, but I agree, is this still America?
 
Injuries that could've been sumissed to be abuse, hmmm, what is the "jack-booted state" to do...? Some would seemingly want it to be alright to say, molest, abuse, or rape children, so long as they're your own, or if say you married them on a fundamentalist compound after an arranged marriage... Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a happy medium to be found in alot of cases, but the law is the law, whether or not justice is applied...

... except NO ONE claimed abuse was occuring. At worst they claimed "negligence" because he didn't take the boy to the hospital. The cause of the injury was observed by neighbors (playing around and fell off a car door) who then called the paramedics.

Undoubtedly the original issue was the high cost of medical care when the father could tell the boy was likely alright.


Once the paramedics started pushing the issue and sending social workers and police, it became a matter of principal.

This is why he pushed the issue. He knew he was right and they were wrong. I don't fault the father here at all- the government was abusive. PERIOD.


EDIT: Also, #300! Woohoo!
 
"...it states that two social services caseworkers tried to explain to Tom Shiflett they believed the boy needed medical treatment after observing injuries including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They offered to pay for treatment, and said they would have to obtain a court order for treatment if they couldn't get Shiflett's consent, the warrant says.

"Shiflett shouted at this worker and advised this worker that if he obtained a court order, he better 'bring an army,'" the warrant states."


Well, he got his wish. What more is there to say?

John
 
A few years ago I was involved in a minor motorcycle accident in Colorado, I wasn't badly hurt, just a skinned knee and a little bump on the head resulting in a black eye. I could have easily called friends and treated myself at home but I foolishly allowed local paramedics to scoop me up and take me to the emergency room, even knowing I would be responsible for the hospital bill.

What I didn't know was I that would be responsible for an almost $1000 ambulance bill and that they would ticket me and impound my motorcycle because I wasn't there to show my proof of insurance (kept in the MCs document holder under the seat, right where it was supposed to be)

My snap decision under stress to let the “authorities” have their way with me cost me thousands of dollars and a day in court. If I ever again find myself in a similar situation my attitude towards paramedics and the officials on the scene will be VERY different.

But in this case there are children involved, so I don't know...
 
I believe the father was part of some cult and did not want his son to get cured by science since it contradicted his beliefs. I think the government was acting right and in the boys best interest in this case.
 
Well, he got his wish. What more is there to say?

Considering a witness contradicts the claims by the paramedics that he was "verbally abusive" and the fact that I distrust social workers more than I distrust reporters, I am not taking those statements at face value.
 
Considering a witness contradicts the claims by the paramedics that he was "verbally abusive" and the fact that I distrust social workers more than I distrust reporters, I am not taking those statements at face value.

From reading all this it appears that NONE of them are telling 100% true stories here huh.....

Maybe eventually what REALLY happened will come out.
 
""...it states that two social services caseworkers tried to explain to Tom Shiflett they believed the boy needed medical treatment after observing injuries including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They offered to pay for treatment, and said they would have to obtain a court order for treatment if they couldn't get Shiflett's consent, the warrant says.

"Shiflett shouted at this worker and advised this worker that if he obtained a court order, he better 'bring an army,'" the warrant states."


Well, he got his wish. What more is there to say?

John"

-JOHNBT

He said it best PERIOD.
 
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I believe the father was part of some cult and did not want his son to get cured by science since it contradicted his beliefs. I think the government was acting right and in the boys best interest in this case.


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Apparently you didn't read that he was a paramedic in the army?

And even if your wrong opinion were the case, he has a right to those beleifs and the government cannot forcefully contradict them.
 
And even if you win a suit on something like this, the chance of getting any money out of it is close to nil.

If you are suing over this for the money then you are missing the point anyway. This is about stopping abuse and punishing those responsible.
So your answer is go to court, spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and get a court to agree that while you get no renumeration,and there will be no penalty to the evil doers, you actually were right?

i am not saying that money makes it whole, but it is the only thing that these agencies care about. Hopefully he sues the paramedics involved as well as everyone who participated in this farce, and goes after the judge and sheriff at the ballot box. A $10 or $20 million judgement will get their attention.
 
In many states, paramedics, along with other healthcare providers, are legally required to report instances of child abuse or neglect if they observe such in the course of their duties. If the medical report is accurate, with the history of a fall from/off a moving car, and that a hematoma and sluggish pupil response was observed, then there is a high clinical concern of a closed head injury, such as a subdural hematoma. People can die from this without treatment, and you need a more sophisticated diagnostic workup to rule this out. This workup can only be done at a hospital and not in the field. The father, who was a field medic in the Army 40 years ago, would not be competent to make this assessment. The article quoted above is silent on this, but I wonder if the child had a head CT scan at the hospital to rule out a brain injury.

So it is very plausible to me to see how this situation got started once the parent refused to let his child be medically evaluated. I work in healthcare administration, and in Washington, we are required to report suspected child abuse or neglect if we have reasonable cause to believe it occurred or is occurring. We report it and let the experts from the social service agencies take over. We can be charged with a crime or face civil liability if we fail to report.
 
i am not saying that money makes it whole, but it is the only thing that these agencies care about.

They care less about money than anything else, since it's all taxpayer money.

People need to lose their jobs over this, not have the city or county just write a nice fat check and go back to business as usual.
 
I played with legos when I was 8... don't aske me to put together a lego castle today though, it'd be a mess... As far as papa being a medic in Vietnam...

"I think I should be able to drive drunk..."

"I think I should be able to have relations with underage girls"

"I think that my rights to do whatever I want should trump all good sense and public safety"

NO.

Heard crap like the above all the time from the "customers" at my last job... They all were spending some time in "time-out" from the rest of the unfair, cruel society that says they couldn't rob- drug- steal-, etc...
 
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