Crazy ATF visit.

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12 Volt Man

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I was not home....

Wife was home with the kids...

Knock at the door.....

Wife opens the door to find three ATF agents with hands on their guns ready to draw.......



Apparantly they aren't too up to date with their intel. They were looking for the guy that we purchased our house from several months ago.

They sure put the scare into my wife though. They were pretty forceful with their questioning and not very nice.
 
Agent Schmuckatelli strikes again!

Visits from G-men tend to shake you up. Even if he's just the county tax guy - one we had said that we'd built a deck on the house and hid it from them. It was about fifteen years old.
I think they're taught to be forceful - tends to provoke a reaction that tells them if the suspect's lying or not.
 
At least the wife and kids didn't 'accidentally set fire to the home and then lock all the doors and windows.' like what the ATF claims during a certain sexual predator-in-chief's tenure.
 
It has been said before: If ANYONE knocks on the door and says they are ANY LEO's call 911. Tell them people with guns are at the door. You will get top priority.
 
I know I have instructed my wife not to answere the door when Im not home unless she is sertain who it is and recognizes them, dont answere the door if they try to come in any way 2 in the chest and 1 in the head.

As for the ATF guys acting the way they did could you talk to an attorney maybe so that maybe in the future these guys wont go around scaring the s*** out of house wifes and children.
 
Yup, bad intel. It happens. Sounds like they were doing their jobs. How should they knock on the door of a home they believe contains a wanted felon? What sort of posture would all of you adopt if it was your job to go visit dangerous criminals at home? Once there they had to verify that the subject they sought was no longer in the house. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they were a little curt. People who might get shot at while at work get like that sometimes. I can understand.

Armchair quarterbacking is easy. Not so easy when you're the one knocking on the door and you don't know how the people inside will react to your presence.

Sounds like an unfortunate mistake that ended with nobody harmed. I'd have a beer and forget about it.
 
Unless they're serving a warrant, no reason for them to be "not very nice," no matter what the circumstances. When I was about 7 or 8, I answered our door to find two FBI guys there. At that age, I was scared $&!+less, but they were totally polite with me, my parents, and with my older sister, with whom they wanted to speak.

They raided some night club and found my sister's name and phone number on a napkin. She was only about 15-16 at the time. Turns out one person at the club had recommended my sister to another as a babysitter. Those SAs were quite suprised (that she was just a teen) when they first met her, though. They called her about a month later and told her what they had learned (as to why her name was in the night club). I doubt you'd get that kind of follow-up today.
 
Back when we were renters, we had officers show up at two different residences looking for previous tennants. One was nice, one was "forceful."

No big deal.
 
saxonpig said:
Yup, bad intel. It happens. Sounds like they were doing their jobs. How should they knock on the door of a home they believe contains a wanted felon? What sort of posture would all of you adopt if it was your job to go visit dangerous criminals at home? Once there they had to verify that the subject they sought was no longer in the house. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they were a little curt. People who might get shot at while at work get like that sometimes. I can understand.

Armchair quarterbacking is easy. Not so easy when you're the one knocking on the door and you don't know how the people inside will react to your presence.

Sounds like an unfortunate mistake that ended with nobody harmed. I'd have a beer and forget about it.
Click to expand...

+1!!!

VERY WELL SAID.

You know what guys, I've been there and knocked on doors, and had knives and guns and anything else you can think of pointed at me and flung out. I've had people slam my arms and legs shut in doors, been stabbed, etc. If you guys simply can't get it through your heads that there are jobs out there a bit more dangerous than yours and perhaps require a certain level of paranoia for survival, then you can always live on Easter Island with the statues...

We are a country of Law, and where there is Law, you must have those who enforce the Law. When you enforce the Law, those who do not want to abide by it, often try to prevent you from getting them or enforcing it. How many of you have had to lay down your co-workers and best friends with bagpipes in the background due to work? Very very few I bet.

Its funny, even before I was an LEO, I never thought any visit by LEOs was anything less than nice. Perhaps I was raised to know they are doing their job and to treat them with the respect I'd want in return.
 
Since I'm not married, am I allowed to decide who I open the door for or do I need to have a guardian appointed to make those decisions for me?

:neener:

You read the silliest stuff here, I swear.
 
OpSen, Pig,

It doesn't matter how bad the job is. Treating good citizens like crap has no excuse.

12 Volt wasn't very specific, so I wish he would came back and clarify just how forceful they were. I am a strong believer that when guests forget their place, a middle finger and a door slam is appropriate.
 
Barbara,

No husband? You'll need to ask your father for permission. :neener:

Saxon and Optical,

Bad intel?

Try sloppy investigative work.

How about trotting on down to the courthouse as part of their "investigation" and checking that "last known address" against the current title to the house. The sale was recorded and available to them. Even running the property taxes would give them the current owner's name.

They could have either saved the gas and time of a visit once they saw the house had been sold months ago or at least have realized that it wasn't necessary to (allegedly) bully the months-old new owners for info.
 
Barbara ~

Then it would be either your brother, if you have one, or your oldest son, provided he is old enough to dress himself.

pax
 
Barbara, just to be on the safe side, you better call me. I'll tell you if you can open the door or not ;) Call me at 555-GET-REAL :)
 
Saxon, Optical, I've got to disagree. (and no, I'm not one of the cop haters, ask Coronoch, Lawdog, the Guests, or Jeff White). Most of my business and training is in conjuction with LE.

Just looking at it from purely a tactical standpoint, if you conduct yourself in a manner that breeds animosity, then it is just going to make your job harder in the future.

There is a time and a place to put on the "game face", I know that, and you know that. When the person at the door is obviously not the hard guy you are looking for, why keep up the attitude that is going to cause future animosity?

It is easier to conduct yourself in a professional manner whenever you don't need the game face. Interactions with the general public are easier when the public isn't trembling in fear.
 
Back when we were renters, we had officers show up at two different residences looking for previous tennants. One was nice, one was "forceful."
No big deal.
Click to expand...

Being an owner and being a tenant are two very different things. I can see "bad intel" on renters. But, as others have pointed out, OWNERSHIP is verifiable, even to us common goobs, and in most counties, ONLINE. Spend five minutes at assessor.county.state.us in the majority of US counties, and you can find the name of the current owner of any property. If they're not online, their records ARE open to public (and definately LEO) inspection.
 
LEOs who choose to be obnoxious with no cause or provocation see no immediate harm to themselves or mission by doing so and will continue to behave in a tacky manner to those who have not earned such treatment.

What the above LEO does not see is the loss of goodwill on the part of the majority that is not criminal. This will have real effects on their future cooperation.

As to getting bad intel, perhaps five minutes with google or the local property tax district could save the investigators, what, two man-hours on a bogus lead?

Issue Agent Schmuckatelli a laptop with a nationwide wireless card so he has the resources to check for faulty intel.

OTOH, patience with obnoxious LEOs is a good policy on the part of law abiding citizens. A 911 call is also advisable to get the local LEOs in on the deal. No sense dealing with agitated, obnoxious armed fellows by your lonesome if you don't have to. I am fortunate in that my local LEOs are good folk. Every encounter has been cordial. But, then, I also treat them with the respect due to a fellow citizen.
 
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