Creedmoor or Swedish for Big Animals?

[js8588]

I own 2 Swedes (& am eyeing up 2 more).

What's your budget? Preferred rifle weight? Intended range?

I plan on acquiring a couple Creedmoors because of the now-ubiquitous ammo options, but mice to moose (within 400 yards), the Swede will get it done. Not bad for a century old round.

 

[Varminterror]

I may have taken the “all North American Game” position a little too much to heart in my original response here, and ignored an expectation of “true big game,” as in gross weights over half ton, or things which might eat you.

If we are whollistically considering “Big game,” to which whitetail deer are the most common, but the smallest and often least hearty, then either the Swede or the Creed should be in consideration. If we’re considering true big game, where elk would be the smallest and bison, moose, and brown bear are th expectation, then neither should be in consideration.

 

[Gtscotty]

I'm not sure that there's enough difference between the two to really matter.

I'm wondering what bullet weight would be best if you were hunting game like elk or moose? I use 140's in a 260 Rem for PA whitetails and think I'd consider a 156/160 for elk and such. The M96 Mausers had a 1:8 twist to stabilize the 156 gr. bullets.

I know that Lapua and Norma load 156 hunting bullets for the 6.5x55, not sure about the Creedmoor.

I think tougher bullets in the 140gr class strike the balance best for elk sized game with the 6.5 CM. I used a 140gr Accubond to ventilate both sides of a mature cow last year, and found the penetration and damage to be excellent. Others may want to go heavier, but it's certainly not necessary, especially in a case like the Creedmoor or .260.

 

[cougar1717]

I don't have any rifles that are well-suited to deer and other large animals. My .308 is heavy, my K31 is an oddball, my Romak III is a bizarre range toy, etc. I was thinking I would fill the void with either 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 Swedish. Bolt action, just to be clear. I really like accurate guns, and I am not all that thrilled about pounding my shoulder during target sessions.

People say either of these guns will work on anything that walks in North America. I do not know if that is true.

I have read that 6.5 Swedish is better for reloading. I don't reload for rifles yet, but I would like to start. On the other hand, everyone in the universe shoots 6.5 Creedmoor now, and life is easy when you shoot the same caliber as everyone else.

Is 6.5 Swedish a waste of time?

I'm not trying to disparage the question or spend the OP's money, but most deer hunting is usually one shot that does not require sub-moa accuracy. 6.5CM and 6.5Swede have similar ballistics, just 100-some years apart. So comparing them ballistically gets responses that are along the lines of "pick what you want" for deer hunting.
Truly, the K31, plus a $15 box of PPU Soft point ammo OR the PSL with a $12 box of PPU SP ammo OR even the heavy 308 will absolutely take a deer. Hunting and target applications do have some crossover, but the choices should be application driven and there are always compromises. The one perfect rifle in the perfect caliber to both hunt and benchrest should also be thrown back into the fires of Mordor - haha.

 

[Llama Bob]

I'd split things at elk & moose vs, bison and brown bear.

The 6.5s have shot a million moose at this point. They're not going to suddenly stop working. Bison and the great bears are commonly shot with only slightly heavier rifles. I would expect high-SD 6.5 to work acceptably. But as a stopping rifle, it's clearly totally insufficient. There, you really want as much gun as you can tote along.

 

[entropy]

He said K31; That is a Swiss rifle, cal. 7.5mmx55 Swiss, or a Finnish SMG, (actually KP-31) cal. 9mm Luger.
Personally, I'd take the Schmidt-Rubin K31 out; a tad heavy, but very accurate.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I don't see myself shooting a bison or grizzly any time soon, but I have a friend who bugs me to split a moose trip with him. No idea what I would do with 500 pounds of moose meat, but I would like to go anyway. It is conceivable that I might be able to get a chance at hogs or small Florida deer this year or next.

My .308 is a DPMS LR-308, and it weighs about three tons. I know it will kill big animals, and the Romak would work, too, but these video-game-style guns are not what I think of when I think of hunting. I got them for range fun. I wanted to learn how to use scoped rifles, and these were my first. If I had it to do over again, I think I would pass on the Romak. I bought it largely because it had dumbass appeal. Crazy gun and fun to shoot.

The various 6.5's appeal to me because they sound like sweet, elegant weapons that would work well on game and also provide great accuracy the other 99.7% of the time, when I'm shooting paper. I thought I might try a Tikka with a 14x scope.

I handload pistol rounds, but I have been too lazy to fool with rifles because reloading rifles takes brains. I need to man up and start with rifles, especially if I ever want to shoot the K31 again. I should have bought 2000 rounds of Ruag back when it was cheap. I should have realized 25 cents per round was not going to be the permanent price.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I don't have any rifles that are well-suited to deer and other large animals. My .308 is heavy, my K31 is an oddball, my Romak III is a bizarre range toy, etc. I was thinking I would fill the void with either 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 Swedish. Bolt action, just to be clear. I really like accurate guns, and I am not all that thrilled about pounding my shoulder during target sessions.

People say either of these guns will work on anything that walks in North America. I do not know if that is true.

I have read that 6.5 Swedish is better for reloading. I don't reload for rifles yet, but I would like to start. On the other hand, everyone in the universe shoots 6.5 Creedmoor now, and life is easy when you shoot the same caliber as everyone else.

Is 6.5 Swedish a waste of time?

Not quite there yet. 308 is by far a more popular cartridge. If you reload there is more bullet selection for 308 than 6.5x55 or CM.

I started loading pistol before rifle. I thought the same thing about rifle, must be harder to reload. Nope, piece of cake. Just harder to size a tapered bottleneck than a straight walled case. Buy the powder in bulk, say 4-8 lbs and save some money.

 

[Llama Bob]

If squeezing the last bit of range out of it isn't on the menu, a .308 is a good hunting rifle choice, as is a .270. Neither of them will reach out as well as the 6.5mms, but they're better supported in terms of widely available hunting ammo.

6.5CM is just beginning to become a common round for hunting, driven I suspect mostly by shooters from target disciplines where it's competitive if not dominant. It works very well, but certain key loads are still a handloading proposition.

 

[Riomouse911]

my cz 550 in 6.5x55 does not have short magazine syntrom, I can put a loaded 3006 round in the magazine with room to spare. by the way all the 6.5,s are good cartiges, but you do need the right twist for them to shoot the long range bullets. for me their are many better cartiges for the long range hunting of big animals.

Same here. The CZ in 6.5x55 is my newest big game rifle.. and now my favorite!

Stay safe!

 

[js8588]

I don't see myself shooting a bison or grizzly any time soon, but I have a friend who bugs me to split a moose trip with him. No idea what I would do with 500 pounds of moose meat, but I would like to go anyway. It is conceivable that I might be able to get a chance at hogs or small Florida deer this year or next.

-snip-

The various 6.5's appeal to me because they sound like sweet, elegant weapons that would work well on game and also provide great accuracy the other 99.7% of the time, when I'm shooting paper.

You want a Swede. That's what this tells me.
"An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

6.5x55 (or 7x57).

 

[Llama Bob]

You want a Swede. That's what this tells me.
"An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

6.5x55 (or 7x57).

If that's what you want, I'd hunt for the nicest used sporterized Mauser I could find. They never cost even close to what has to be in them, and some are really nice.

 

[js8588]

Or one of these. I have one. Great rifle https://www.gunbroker.com/item/784452095

 

[Llama Bob]

That's kind of retro-cool

 

[Garandimal]

id take a swede over a cm any day. maybe if the 6.5 cm did not have the i am the best cartridge ever made any every other obsolete and crap i may own one.

Like they've invented new girl parts.

Ha!




GR

 

[Jerseykris]

Like they've invented new girl parts.

Well, I hear they're actually working on that in Japan as we speak, and have asked a few of the Creedmoor designers for help, soooo.....

 

[MattB]

Both are great cartridges and I have both. I get much more velocity and performance out of a 6.5x55 then the 6.5 creed but I also reload. Bottom line, If you reload get the 6.5x55. Also, pay attention to the twist rates on the 6.5x55. The 6.5 creed comes with the 1:8 in all factory offerings. It is hard to find the correct twist rate in the available 6.5x55 offerings. CZ comes with 1:8.6 which works great and Tikka/Sako 1:8. Some of the other rifles offered did not have the proper twist rate for the 6.5x55.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It is hard to find the correct twist rate in the available 6.5x55 offerings.............. Some of the other rifles offered did not have the proper twist rate for the 6.5x55.

The original military load was a long 156 gr, followed by a 140 gr. spitzer post war. Standard for 6.5 Swede is 1:8.66. While I'm sure there have been rifles made with slower twists, every one I've ever read specs on is between 1:8 and 1:9, including US made guns.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

So CZ?

It is hard to find the correct twist rate in the available 6.5x55 offerings. CZ comes with 1:8.6 which works great and Tikka/Sako 1:8. Some of the other rifles offered did not have the proper twist rate for the 6.5x55.

 

[Gtscotty]

I get much more velocity and performance out of a 6.5x55 then the 6.5 creed but I also reload.

What velocities are you getting in your x55?

 

[MattB]

Out of my CZ 550 with ~23.6" barrel, I have gotten the following with no pressure signs and a very tight std dev. These loads were safe in my rifle and I would not suggest them in anyone else's rifle.
140gr Sierra (48.2gr) avg 2783fps std dev 6.5fps
130gr Barnes TTSX (50.5gr) avg 3095fps std dev 3.3fps -accurate with one flier 2.5" 5 shot @ 200 yards
130gr Barnes TTSX (49.4gr) avg 2970fps std dev 6.7fps -most accurate 2.1" 5 shot @ 200 yards

I have a Savage LRPR in 6.5 creed with a 26" bbl and it shot the following with factory ammo (I have not worked up a reload for this rifle yet but all ammo shot was very accurate).
140gr Hornady Match avg 2720 fps std dev 15.2fps
120gr Hornady Match avg 2843 fps std dev 16.8fps

The 130 gr performance is great with my 6.5x55. My go to loads are the 130 TTSX with 49.4gr MRP and a Nosler Accubond with 46gr MRP @ avg vel 2620 fps.

I am curious to how the Savage will respond with reloads as it is very accurate with every factory load I have shot through the rifle. I think there are some gains to be had with tightening up the std dev of velocity and getting the correct land distance for the load.

 

[Gtscotty]

140gr Sierra (48.2gr) avg 2783fps std dev 6.5fps
130gr Barnes TTSX (50.5gr) avg 3095fps std dev 3.3fps -accurate with one flier 2.5" 5 shot @ 200 yards
130gr Barnes TTSX (49.4gr) avg 2970fps std dev 6.7fps -most accurate 2.1" 5 shot @ 200 yards

Your 140gr velocity is right around what I've seen with my handloads out of a 22" 6.5x55 and two 6.5 Creedmoors (22" and 24"). The 130gr load @ 3,095 fps is smokin' for sure, my 22" Creedmoor got ~2,900 fps with the similar 127gr LRX, about 1gr below the published max for the 130gr TTX with RL16.

Comparing your warm x55 handloads to pedestrian factory Creedmoor loads doesn't really tell the whole story. When you start loading for the CM, be sure to try RL16, with that 26" barrel, you should see some excellent performance.

 

[MattB]

Your 140gr velocity is right around what I've seen with my handloads out of a 22" 6.5x55 and two 6.5 Creedmoors (22" and 24"). The 130gr load @ 3,095 fps is smokin' for sure, my 22" Creedmoor got ~2,900 fps with the similar 127gr LRX, about 1gr below the published max for the 130gr TTX with RL16.

Comparing your warm x55 handloads to pedestrian factory Creedmoor loads doesn't really tell the whole story. When you start loading for the CM, be sure to try RL16, with that 26" barrel, you should see some excellent performance.

The 127gr LRX is moving great for a 22" bbl and below max charge. I am not sure how sensitive the 6.5 creed will be to changes but I know that my 6.5x55 shoots all factory ammo really crappy but every handload has great accuracy. Both cartridges are great but I will give the nod to cheaper Lapua brass to the 6.5x55 and the availability of RL22, Norma 204 and Norma MRP, etc for all the powders that work well. The powder situation for the 6.5 creed can be annoying when want to work up a target round. Thanks for the advice and recommendations on the RL16. I was trying to get some H4350 but everyone knows how that one goes.

 

[Gtscotty]

The powder situation for the 6.5 creed can be annoying when want to work up a target round. Thanks for the advice and recommendations on the RL16. I was trying to get some H4350 but everyone knows how that one goes.

There are a ton of powders that work well for hunting type loads, for target loads you hear good things about RL16, RL17, IMR 4451, IMR 4350, Norma URP, and H100V.

I've burned a good bit of H4350, but when it got scarce I moved to RL16, and have been quite happy. H4350 seems to be showing up more and more, lately, but I doubt I'll switch back.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Is there a reason to choose 1-8.6 over 1.8?