Crimping Insight Wanted

[Allen One1]

If you can see the crimp it's enough. The one on the right above looks good to me.

 

[Skgreen]

I've been reloading for revolver for perhaps a year.

Couple things I've learned:

1. Don't get too wrapped up in roll crimping everything. Many times it, it's simply not needed.

2. The crimp groove in the bullet plays a big role in your success. The referenced Speer LSWC has probably the smallest, least 'user-friendly' groove of any that I've used. Using a different bullet with a larger, more well-defined crimp groove really made it a lot easier for me to refine/improve my crimping skills.

 

[Walkalong]

The referenced Speer LSWC has probably the smallest, least 'user-friendly' groove

lol, so true, but it doesn't need much roll crimp, so it's all good.

Between neck tension and lightly roll crimping the case mouth into the center of the crimp groove it will be more than sufficient for .38 Spl loads.

The crimp groove in the bullet plays a big role in your success

It certainly influences the crimp. If you go look at some roll crimps in the crimp thread you'll see how the case mouth likes to form to the crimp groove in hard cast bullets That soft Speer may not influence it much.

You can see the influence of the crimp groove on the angle of the case mouth rolled into it.
It will do this without changing the crimp setting.

Jacketed bullet canellures depth & width will also affect the look of the crimp.

 

[lordpaxman]

This is my once fired federal brass, so - I'm giving them the benefit of doubt on case length.

Good deal! You may want to measure them, just so you know how consistent they are, and the average length. Remember, your current expander, seat depth and roll crimp is based on this length, not necessarily the trim length. It’s good to keep records of all this for future work.
Good luck with your live rounds and if you post back here, I’d definitely look!

 

[Waterboy3313]

Sounds like you're getting a handle on it. Load up some live rounds and go test them out.

What powder are you using? Start slow and work up. You will do fine.

 

[film495]

Winchester 231, landed to 3.3 grains - just to give myself a nice light load, but a buffer off the 3.1 minimum listed for 158 grain LSWC

Ended up loading a box, well 46, two were missing and I don't recall why - and 2 for testing .. so, the rest seemed to come together nicely.

One thing I did notice when boxing up and checking with a cartridges with a case gauge, that several of them had a tiny little string of brass hanging off the end, like a thread. Has to be shaved brass, but no idea why it would do that. I did not lube anything, but cleaned the dies out before using. I'd have to look in the die with a scope or something to see how it is made to see if there is something in the design that does that. Maybe the crimp should get opened up 1/8 turn, or a hint of sizing wax should get put in there or something, don't know.

I'd say 50 percent or so of the finished cartridges had the little brass thread that went around the case mouth. I didn't bother to measure the cases in detail for length, spot checked a few and called it good enough. I did weigh each charge twice, and then also each case, and then each loaded case, then went into a separate tray for charged cases. Guess I decided to try to just make sure I was doing the big steps really correctly. I did check the OAL of the finished rounds, think it was .1.436 which is a touch short, but in spec - think 1.425 is min.

Dropped each one into a case gauge, and one last look over before boxing.

 

[Waterboy3313]

Did you feel any abnormal resistance or anything scraping or grinding when seating?

Maybe caused by over expanded case mouth catching the outside of the die?

 

[joneb]

several of them had a tiny little string of brass hanging off the end, like a thread. Has to be shaved brass

That's pretty common for me with a medium to heavy crimp I give them a wipe with a rag, I don't want the brass hair going through my barrel.
Your load is pretty light you may get away with less crimp, less is more sometimes.

 

[film495]

shoot - speer lists the start charge for that bullet at 3.8 grains, the data I was looking at was for hard cast bullets

they also list HP-38 at 3.6, for start load which is the exact same powder, sooo .. odd

 

[joneb]

shoot - speer lists the start charge for that bullet at 3.8 grains

You could work up the load, I would do it in 1/10 grain increments so I didn't miss out on a good load. I load 5-10 of each and shoot from a rest over a chronogragh and check for leading and COL change between loads. One of my favorite loads for a 158gr cast SWC is 4.2gr of W-231 and a standard primer.

 

[film495]

That's pretty common for me with a medium to heavy crimp I give them a wipe with a rag, I don't want the brass hair going through my barrel.
Your load is pretty light you may get away with less crimp, less is more sometimes.

Doing a little internet searching, found some info that the little brass thread is common with newer brass - often caused by not chamfering and de burring the case mouth. I have no actual experience with this other than, I was loading once fired brass that I did not chamfer or de-bur. I did check the spec on how much the case was flared and it was well within the spec in the die directions. The crimp did not look too strong, so - my best guess would be the little thread is from not doing a quick job with the de-bur/chamfer tool.

 

[joneb]

Doing a little internet searching, found some info that the little brass thread is common with newer brass - often caused by not chamfering and de burring the case mouth. I have no actual experience with this other than, I was loading once fired brass that I did not chamfer or de-bur. I did check the spec on how much the case was flared and it was well within the spec in the die directions. The crimp did not look too strong, so - my best guess would be the little thread is from not doing a quick job with the de-bur/chamfer tool.

I trim all of my revolver once, and then deburr the outside of the case mouth and chamfer the inside. This is a big plus for taper crimping plated bullets, besides just being good case prep.

 

[Walkalong]

I trim all of my revolver once, and then deburr the outside of the case mouth and chamfer the inside. This is a big plus for taper crimping plated bullets, besides just being good case prep.

Me too, unless it is a batch of new all same brass that is very consistent in length, but I still chamfer and deburr it.

My .38 Spl and .357 Mag brass is all range pickup and the lengths are all over the place, it all gets trimmed first.

 

[frankmako]

one of the easy way to adjust the crimp is to take a empty sized case with no bullet and run it up into the seating die. look at the crimp. do you need more or less. this way you can move the seating die up/down without having to move the bullet seating stem. when you think you got the right amount then seat a bullet to see. normally most put to much crimp on.

 

[Reeferman]

lots of good info here - taking in a lot, gives me a little basis for doing some testing with the dies, probably just cases and bullets to get a feel for it for a while, this is the bullet type from speer 158 grain LSWC

View attachment 883332

I load a lot of the Speer LSWC in 38/357 and 44 special/ magnum. Though not needed and hated by some I use Lee FCD for each of those calibers. The crimp I use is just enough to remove bell as it is very easy to over crimp them. I’ve been able to find some loads that shoot really well using those bullets and one that is a tack driver from my SBH.

 

[film495]

well, I fired 18 of these first handloads this morning. All seemed to work just fine. a little softer than the factory ammo I fired just before it, but I expected that. all in all, seemed to go very well. I haven't cleaned the firearm yet, or really looked at the brass other than a quick glance, so we'll see there. goal was to see if I could load some that fired correctly, so - for first time around - very pleased.