• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Curio and relic license discounts still active

Unfortunately the USPS only allows shipping handguns from and to licensed dealers or manufacturers and an FFL03 is excluded, PS Form 1508 which has to be filed with every handgun shipment states that clearly. You will also need to get a bound book to log all firearms bought with that FFL in & out. Bear also in mind, that ATF can come and inspect your books and guns without a warrant.
 
Last edited:
A large percentage of my guns were C&R acquisitions but I realized not too long ago that there are also ones I bought new that have now aged into the C&R eligible category.

That hurt.
You and me both!!!
 
Just found this thread but noticed this
Fingerprint card for a C&R?? I've never had to and I've had mine (renewed every 3 years) since 2006.

Look at the Application the Photo nor fingerprint card is not required.

(Page 4 "Type 03 Applicants:
A photograph and fingerprint card are not required if you are applying for a Type 03
Collector of Curios and Relics license only")

Opps seen that somebody already beat me to that bit of info.
 
Last edited:
Just found this thread but noticed this


Look at the Application the Photo nor fingerprint card is not required.

(Page 4 "Type 03 Applicants:
A photograph and fingerprint card are not required if you are applying for a Type 03
Collector of Curios and Relics license only")

Opps seen that somebody already beat me to that bit of info.
??? Not sure why you chose my post which basically says exactly what you're saying. Was it as an example or a misread?
 
Last edited:
was agreeing /confirming with you that FD 258 wasn't required for a Type 3 C&R as you stated .
Although I haven't applied for this type of FFL was considering it found the topic of interest.
 
....Bear also in mind, that ATF can come and inspect your books and guns without a warrant.
Not exactly.
For collectors the regs are different: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-478/subpart-C/section-478.23
§ 478.23 Right of entry and examination....At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in closest proximity to the collectors premises.
 
NICE! I just did a home finger print and I messed up twice!

Every time I've done fingerprints for CCW, it had to be signed by someone in law enforcement. That looks like the same fingerprint card. Isn't there a spot for the signature of the person taking the fingerprints?

I thought that's what I had to do for a FFL, but that was years ago.

Our local sheriff's office does it for like $15.
 
Every time I've done fingerprints for CCW, it had to be signed by someone in law enforcement. That looks like the same fingerprint card. Isn't there a spot for the signature of the person taking the fingerprints?

I thought that's what I had to do for a FFL, but that was years ago.

Our local sheriff's office does it for like $15.
Before covid I did my finger prints at the sheriff office buy them. Now, they accept home finger print cards.

Not sure about FFL but for EForm 4
 
There is a lot of up sides I see to a Type 3 C&R , especially if one only wishes to collect items 50 years (1973 this year, next year 1974) or older. As Dogtown Tom pointed out the rules are different BECAUSE a Type 3 is "Not engaged in the business", the purpose was for private collections only.
As such they can't lawfully come to your home without a warrant period, yes they could ask but you have the right to force them to a present warrant. There are some requirement the same, such as the A&D "bound book" requirement, but it should only contained those Items you obtained (using your Type 3 FFL) after your license date. Anything you had prior is excluded from record keeping (type 3 C&R A&D book) and anything you buy newer than 50 years old from a FFL that is done with a NICS check and not presenting a copy of your C&R.
Honestly most Type 3's (C&R) will not have a lot of dispositions except for maybe horse trading of curio's between C&R's and some private individuals, but not to the public at large. Which is really nothing more than a log entry. No filling out of 4473's, no NICS checks requirement.
Another aspect is say I have and go to the Tulsa Gun show and locate a S&W model 13 no dash (manufacturer date is prior to 1962 so qualifies as C&R). I would surrender a signed copy of my Type 3 License and go with it. Verses being a non licensee which means I have to have it shipped to a local (within the state I reside) FFL and then transferred which are here is at least $25.00 fee not counting the postage. What is the cost of a FFL Type 3 C&R $30.00 for three years.

Unfortunately the USPS only allows shipping handguns from and to licensed dealers or manufacturers and an FFL03 is excluded, PS Form 1508 which has to be filed with every handgun shipment states that clearly.
Not too sure that is a true statement

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-licensee-mail-handguns-through-us-postal-service

While a Type 3 can't conduct /engage in the business, they are still a Licensee under the provisions of the GCA. Words have meaning and meanings have words. FFL regardless of type is Federal Firearms Licensee, It is ONLY termed "dealer" (type1), Manufacturer (type 7) by the type of application and fees. So observe the Verbiage used in the FAQ "Licensee" not the words dealer, manufacturer, ammunition, or destructive device.

But the truth is not very many dealers / others engaged in the business want to ship handguns Via USPS. They have a terrible record on multiple accounts of delivery losses, dropping at other locations, and damage. Now could the Postmaster make a differing more restrictive on what they will deliver. yes. Could the Postmaster determine that since a Type 3 is a licensee as provided within the CGA. Yes.

I have looked at the form you mentioned nowhere did exclude a type 3 on it's face. SO Let's PLEASE review the ACTUAL USPS regulations Publications 52 Page 99 ( https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52/pub52.pdf )
" 432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

b. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2, which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing between governmental museums without regard to the restrictions provided for handguns in 432.21 through 432.24 and Exhibit 432.25.

c. Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1 and are capable of being concealed on a person are mailable, but must include Adult Signature service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must comply with all applicable state and local regulations.

d. Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C.

e. Mailers are also subject to applicable restrictions by governments of a state, territory, or district "


Now could I have a Type 3 C&R and have a S&W model 1905 mailed to me via the USPS as by the date of Manufacture is a C&R. NO UNLESS 431.3 section b ( page 98) is met.
"Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. " Thus will met the requirement 432.2 subsection a. and is mailable to a Type 3 via USPS.
Which is moot point in my opinion, as I would not want anything mailed Via USPS. Unless of course that FedEx or UPS was out of business.
 
Last edited:
Every time I've done fingerprints for CCW, it had to be signed by someone in law enforcement. That looks like the same fingerprint card. Isn't there a spot for the signature of the person taking the fingerprints?...
Applicants for an FFL type other than an 03 Collector, are required to have their prints taken by someone "properly equipped".....and properly equipped means an ink pad and an FP card.:D
https://www.atf.gov/file/61506/download
6. Fingerprint Cards & Photographs - The following items must accompany this application. Failure to submit these items will delay processing and may result in denial of the application. NOTE: A fingerprint card and photograph are NOT required if applying for a Type 03 license only. a. ATF Form 7/7CR Part B, Responsible Person Questionnaire, must be completed and submitted for ALL responsible persons (see definition #3). b. A properly prepared fingerprint card (form FD-258) must be submitted for ALL responsible persons, unless they have previously submitted one as an RP for another FFL. The fingerprints must be clear for accurate classification and taken by someone properly equipped to take them. To facilitate processing of fingerprints, the FD-258 should list “WVATF1100 ATF-FFLC, MARTINSBURG, WV” in the ORI block.
 
Not too sure that is a true statement
It's exactly true.

I have looked at the form you mentioned nowhere did exclude a type 3 on it's face.
Yet the very top of the Form 1508 https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf says: "This form can only be used by manufacturers or dealers of firearms"
And the sworn statement:
"The undersigned is a manufacturer of firearms or bona fide dealer therein, and the parcels presented for mailing herewith are customary trade shipments or other articles for repair or replacement of parts. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the addresses are manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein."

If you hold an 03FFL Collector and complete and submit that form you perjure yourself and violate federal law.


ATF doesn't have anything to do with postal regulations. And NEVER take ATF FAQ's at face value. The citations below each FAQ are valid yet the FAQ answer may not be.

While a Type 3 can't conduct /engage in the business, they are still a Licensee under the provisions of the GCA. Words have meaning and meanings have words. FFL regardless of type is Federal Firearms Licensee, It is ONLY termed "dealer" (type1), Manufacturer (type 7) by the type of application and fees. So observe the Verbiage used in the FAQ "Licensee" not the words dealer, manufacturer, ammunition, or destructive device.
None of which has anything to do with USPS. And yes words do have meaning and USPS doesn't differentiate between FFL license types but uses the terms "dealer" "manufacturer", "importer" in section 432 Mailability: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm
432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3......

And since 431.3 defines "antique firearm as:
431.3 Antique Firearm
Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

It's not mailable. Further, ATF doesn't even regulate antique firearms. Nowhere in USPS regulations does it allow an 03 Collector to mail any C&R firearm other than a rifle or shotgun.


Who can mail handguns as defined by USPS (basically any firearm other than a rifle or shotgun)?
Military and law enforcement in an official capacity.

And...........

432.23 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.
Note that USPS does not include "collector".

Further, licensed dealers, manufacturers and importers are required to submit a USPS Form 1508
432.24 Certificate of Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers
A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer, or importer need not file the affidavit under 432.22, but must file with the Postmaster a statement on PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and components of handguns under 432.2d, are being mailed in customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers, or importers of firearms. Registered Mail service is recommended.
Again, no mention of a collector.



But the truth is not very many dealers / others engaged in the business want to ship handguns Via USPS. They have a terrible record on multiple accounts of delivery losses, dropping at other locations, and damage. Now could the Postmaster make a differing more restrictive on what they will deliver. yes.
Absolute nonsense. USPS Priority Mail is half the cost of UPS Next Day or FedEx Overnight. USPS has been my first choice for handguns for almost fifteen years. At least half the handgun shipments I receive are in a medium FRB.



Could the Postmaster determine that since a Type 3 is a licensee as provided within the CGA. Yes.
Absolutely not for a couple of reasons....first and foremost is USPS regs clearly indicate who MAY ship firearms other than rifles and shotguns, and licensed collector is not one of them. Further, every "authorized person" as well as manufacturers, dealers and importers has a notification requirement, either a required affidavit or Form 1508.....collectors do not.
433 Legal Opinions on Mailing Firearms
Postmasters are not authorized to give opinions on the legality of any shipment of firearms. Mailers requesting additional information should be referred to the ATF. Further advice and ATF contact information is available at http://atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensing.html.


I have looked at the form you mentioned nowhere did exclude a type 3 on it's face. SO Let's PLEASE review the ACTUAL USPS regulations Publications 52 Page 99 ( https://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52/pub52.pdf )
" 432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

Now could I have a Type 3 C&R and have a S&W model 1905 mailed to me via the USPS . NO UNLESS 431.3 section b ( page 98) is met.
A S&W 1905 will never meet the definition of "antique firearm" as it is made after 1898.


"Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. " Thus will met the requirement 432.2 subsection a. and is mailable to a Type 3 via USPS.
You are leaving out some pretty important stuff......the entire definition says:
431.3 Antique Firearm
Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

a. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
b. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
 
Last edited:
@dogtown tom
Sorry but I did quote the exact requirement from USPS not ATF. I used the ATF Link to show that ATF had no such restrictions , then if you noticed I then went to USPS as the deciding factor. Even posting a direct Link to the USPS regulation so those wanting to check it could. if you read that part and go to the link at USPS. MY point that you missed is there is SOME handguns that a type three can mail via USPS and receive. which is why i stated clearly and distinctly "NOT EXACTLY true"
Now my example of a S&W 1905 may not have been a good choice. I only chose it because I could not think of a handgun off the top of my head that was calibered in a defunct cartridge. Such as a handgun produced in .32 Rimfire. Which is mailable because or rather meets both requirement of antique and C&R by postal regulation. Now a S&W 1905 calibered in ammunition that is available for sale today NO NO NO can mail (I Should have used a number 2 or 3 or another depending on the 1898 date restriction or replica that is calibred in a defunct cartage as a example in hind sight)

But to say No handgun can be mailed to a type3 is not correct either. Provided the postal requirements are met. That was my point which if you read your own post you also proved my point

Oh and no on the USPS my experience has been that most our handguns was received via UPS/fedex none of my distributors would use them (USPS). I could count on one hand outta thousands of transactions of receiving handgun (1985 is when I got my first FFL before I decided not to renew decades later), via USPS. Long guns different story yeah about 50% or so.

Heck I'm old enough to remember when manufacturers dropped the 45-70 Government and was not offered in the US only to become a zombie cartridge resurrected from the dead cartridge list.
 
Last edited:
and honestly if you want to see the word collector a review of your own post from the USPS states it
"432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3...... "
 
@dogtown tom and @MachIVshooter Now I have seen something from the "ask the experts" on the Eforms website that I don't know what to make of the question and response? As both or either of you might know the answer to. To me it is sort of confusing.
the FAQ goes like this:
Q. May a licensed collector obtain NFA firearms in interstate commerce?
Yes, if the firearm is classified as curios or relics, the firearm is registered, and the firearm is transferred in accordance with the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Am I reading /understanding this correct? IF a NFA item (suppressor, not that many if any would be interested in a used one/ MG/SBR /SBS, etc) is older than 50 years or older and could qualify as a C&R item. And once the NFA requirements (form4 approval) are met then say either of you two could transfer to a Type 3 collector from out of your state? (the Mac 10 with the factory Suppressor comes to mind provided both are 50yrs old by serial number or form3 /or 4 as that would be a two stamper).

NOT that I'm planning on doing this but rather for a discussion
 
and honestly if you want to see the word collector a review of your own post from the USPS states it
"432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

a. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3...... "
Collectors have the same ability as any other nonlicensee when mailing an antique firearm.
Federal law does not regulate the interstate transfer of antique firearms. USPS makes it pretty darn clear that collectors and nonlicensee have no ability to mail a handgun other than an antique, And being antique aren't regulated its a nothingburger.
 
@dogtown tom Yes or rather Ok , that is what I thought it meant (never thought / intended that it was immediate transfer without a NFA approval and tax collection First and foremost).
interesting.... kinda opens up options versus being locked into using a SOT within your state. Thank You for your insight.
 
Back
Top