Currently manufactured double rifles

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Frostbite

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Reading the thread discussing the importance of controlled feed versus push feed brought back to me the dream of a double rifle, which will most likely remain just a dream for pecuniary reasons: the hunting I can afford is already well taken care of with the rifles I own.

So, just to enable my dreaming a bit, which double rifles would you look at in brand new manufactured ones? Why?

If you own one of those which is still available new, be most welcome to post pictures and targets if you can.

Finally, which specific characteristics should we be looking for in such rifles?

Since this is more of a dream than a pursuit, money is not a consideration. That said, I already know Holland and Holland. They are beautiful. And I also know Baïkal at, I would guess, the other end of the spectrum. They seem adequate in function. What's in between?
 
Merkel is probably going to be the most affordable that is still pretty decent.

All the big name bespoke makers of yesteryear are mostly still around. H&H, Purdy, Westley Richards to name a few. Rigby is still around. Last I heard they were actually being made in the US. There are a few Spanish and Italian makers as well. All are going to be hyper expensive but nonetheless awesome to behold.
 
Well H&H, Rigby, Purdy, Westley Richards, etc all make best quality doubles. If you're looking for cheap but good, smiths that make barrel sets for repurposed shotgun actions are probably your best bet. Baikal will just give you cheap and I think they come in limited chamberings probably due to action limits.

You have to think about if you want a boxlock or a sidelock. Sidelocks probably handle better, but boxlocks are simpler, cheaper, and maybe more reliable.

Regulation matters at least as much as raw accuracy - does it shoot both barrels to the same place with both a soft and solid load you can get/make more of?

The action needs to be reliable. Even some expensive doubles have problems with the recoil from the first barrel setting off the second. This is bad to horrible depending on chambering.

Stock fit matters since recoil will likely be substantial.
 
I feel like most double rifles are relatively custom affairs, so it’s less a question of “what brand” and more a question of “which bespoke British maker offers an ambience in their retail shop that resonates with me, whose traditional aesthetic and storied history do I prefer, and, way down on the list.... will I be spending a modest sum of, say, $30,000 (perhaps preowned, but assuredly I will have it custom stocked for me) or a slightly more extravagant, but still very reasonable price, and no doubt a great value, at only $140,000...”
 
Sabbatti and Chapuis are the low end of the market. And they are for a reason. Not worth the money.

I don’t know why modern CAD and CNC can’t produce a set of well regulated barrels, but all indications are that, to get genuinely well regulated barrels that deliver to an effective POA, it takes a lot of man hours.
 
If you don't mind front stuffing it yourself, there are some M/L SxS rifles that won't break the bank, but you won't win the Rendevous Shoot with them, either.
 
Not that I could ever afford one, but I was pretty fond of the Krieghoff Doubles. As far as quality doubles go....I thought it was fairly reasonably priced! memtb
 
entropy said:
If you don't mind front stuffing it yourself, there are some M/L SxS rifles that won't break the bank, but you won't win the Rendevous Shoot with them, either.
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I opened the can... Are they hunting deer at 75 yards accurate? Who makes them?
 
Sometime around 2012 or so the Buds website listed a double rifle made by some outfit like USSG. The price was somewhere around $400 and it was chambered in 45-70. There was a very small part of me that considered wasting the money just to own a double rifle. I’m sure it was a complete hunk of garbage.
 
entropy said:
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/products/kodiak-express

But like many things these days, harder to find than normal:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022199928

http://www.cherrys.com/ped_rif2.htm
At least Cherry's doesn't say they are out- "call for availability"

The .72 double would be a whomper.
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I had a Pedersoli Kodiak in 50 cal. It took a bit, but I found a load that put two round ball inside 2” of each other at 100 yards. Then I got bored and sold it. They are well made for what they are.
 
If I bought one now it would be a Heym. I have tried a few K guns and they just do not seem to fit me well. It would be for a rimmed cartridge such as a 470 to be sure the extractors/ejectors work their best.
 
DocRock said:
Sabbatti and Chapuis are the low end of the market. And they are for a reason. Not worth the money.

I don’t know why modern CAD and CNC can’t produce a set of well regulated barrels, but all indications are that, to get genuinely well regulated barrels that deliver to an effective POA, it takes a lot of man hours.
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The Chapuis 9.3x74R I've handled and fired was a fine double rifle and very accurate to boot. I know that a sample size of one does not mean a whole lot, but based on my experience with one, I'd not hesitate to buy a Chapuis. Not that I have the money...
 
 
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I'm prepared to attract some hate: the Valmet/Tikka/Beretta/etc. 412/512 system

13669290_2.jpg

Some websites imply that it is still in production as the Marocchi FinnClassic 512 System, but I can't find solid confirmation.

http://doublegunhq.com/marocchigallery/finn.htm

Negatives:
O/Us aren't as fast to reload as a SxS -- I discovered this during my brief fling with a cheap Baikal O/U double (granted, extractors instead of ejectors) a few years ago. BTW, that one was a better shooter than the low price tag and Soviet-era finish would suggest

Double.gif

The 412/512 only supports the lower-end of the dangerous game cartridges -- I think 9.3x74R is about tops

They lack bespoke stock fit

Most importantly to most buyers, they are severely lacking in sex and snob appeal

Positives:
It is affordable (around $2-3K, depending, used Finnish models going for slightly less) -- it is priced for the working class

The action is strong for the cartridges offered

There are no soldered ribs between the barrels to collect rust

The stock much is less prone to cracking around the action than most other doubles (uses a through-bolt, similar to the arrangement on the Ruger No.1)

It offers the option of extra prefit shotgun barrels

Users can re-regulate the barrels for loads that differ from factory spec.

BTW, if you are curious about what goes into regulating a tradition double, check this video out:

 
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Llama Bob said:
Well H&H, Rigby, Purdy, Westley Richards, etc all make best quality doubles. If you're looking for cheap but good, smiths that make barrel sets for repurposed shotgun actions are probably your best bet. Baikal will just give you cheap and I think they come in limited chamberings probably due to action limits.
Click to expand...

Repurposed shotgun actions with barrel sets tend to be nightmares. Being a longtime owner of multiple doubles and having used them extensively in the field I can categorically say that you’re better off spending some more money and getting a reliable factory double.

You have to think about if you want a boxlock or a sidelock. Sidelocks probably handle better, but boxlocks are simpler, cheaper, and maybe more reliable.
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There is absolutely no difference in handling with a well fit box lock and a well fit side lock. Side locks are easier to work on in the field due to the removable side plates. They also have more metal surface for engraving. And they take more fitting and skill to build so they’re more expensive. Side locks were the preferred rifle of the safari hunter of old due to the ease of access to the locks.

Regulation matters at least as much as raw accuracy - does it shoot both barrels to the same place with both a soft and solid load you can get/make more of?
Click to expand...

Regulation means it shoots both barrels to within a couple of inches apart both side to side and elevation. A rifle regulates to a specific bullet weight and velocity. If your solids are not regulating to your softs you can usually fix it by changing the velocity of your solids either up or down depending on if they are spreading or crossing at 50 yards.

The action needs to be reliable. Even some expensive doubles have problems with the recoil from the first barrel setting off the second. This is bad to horrible depending on chambering.

Stock fit matters since recoil will likely be substantial.
Click to expand...

If your rifle is doubling it’s usually because the shooter is bouncing the second trigger in recoil. To find out if that’s the case try pulling the back trigger first. If it doesn’t double it was you. If it still does you’ve got big problems and it needs to go to good double rifle smith for repair.

If you want a solid reliable well built double for the least amount of money in order;
1. Chapouis
2. Merkle
3. Kreighoff
4. Blazer

If you want a no kidding reliable working double with intercepting sear safeties and an excellent reputation in the field buy a Heym 88B or the new 89 series. Be super careful of a Searcy, you can find really good ones but the QC is all over the place with them.

Stay away from any and all of the super cheap Italian rifles and the Russian stuff. They are a waste of money.
 
Another option is a Cape gun, one rifle barrel and one shotgun barrel, side x side. Or, in O/U form they are known as Combination guns, or Bockbuschflinte. The Valmet system gun was made at one time as one, and of course, the Savage 24 series is one we all know about.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Side locks are easier to work on in the field due to the removable side plates. They also have more metal surface for engraving. And they take more fitting and skill to build so they’re more expensive. Side locks were the preferred rifle of the safari hunter of old due to the ease of access to the locks.
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What do you think about the wood to metal bearing surface? One old timer opined that the sidelock had less support and was more likely to crack.

Of course you can be Way Cool and get a Westley Richards detachable box lock.
I do wonder how much work got done on a gunlock in a safari tent, though.

Once upon a time, Stoeger's had their own brands, many choices shortly before WWII.
The A.F. Stoeger guns were priced right up there with the plainer models from Hollands and the other big British names. The Zephyrs were substantially less expensive.
They kept some after the war. I had a 1950s Shooter's Bible that still listed them.
They had a Spanish made .470 double, whee.
And a nicer looking doppelbusch drilling, .30-06 x .30-06 x 20 ga; probably out of Ferlach.

I do not recall hearing of anybody still using either, though, rifle or shot.
 
H&Hhunter said:
Repurposed shotgun actions with barrel sets tend to be nightmares. Being a longtime owner of multiple doubles and having used them extensively in the field I can categorically say that you’re better off spending some more money and getting a reliable factory double.
Click to expand...
I disagree with much of what you say, but it's a basic fact that a shotgun action suited to 1 7/8 magnum 12ga turkey load is built to the level required for a 450NE at least, and arguably a 470NE. That's just physics. The quality of the barrel set is a separate issue, but there are certainly good makers. The trouble is much more likely to be with the lock than with the barrels, and having barrels regulated to a known modern load is a substantial advantage.
If your rifle is doubling it’s usually because the shooter is bouncing the second trigger in recoil. To find out if that’s the case try pulling the back trigger first. If it doesn’t double it was you. If it still does you’ve got big problems and it needs to go to good double rifle smith for repair.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the old "blame the customer for the failure of our $30,000 rifle" strategy :D It's theoretically possible that the shooter's finger is passing through the first trigger as if it wasn't there to "bump" the rear trigger, but call me skeptical ;) Your test assumes the two locks are equally good. If it's the back trigger lock that's sketchy, your test will incorrectly OK the gun as safe.

The reality is that MANY double rifles have doubling problems. It's easy to see why - the sear for the 2nd barrel has to hold with the safety disengaged through massive recoil. That's a flaw in the basic double rifle (and double shotgun) design. It can be mitigated by increasing the sear engagement, but it will always be there.
 
Not if you get a London Best with "intercepting sears."
I think Greener had a design which obviated the need for an added part, but I haven't been through the book lately.
 
Llama Bob said:
I disagree with much of what you say, but it's a basic fact that a shotgun action suited to 1 7/8 magnum 12ga turkey load is built to the level required for a 450NE at least, and arguably a 470NE. That's just physics. The quality of the barrel set is a separate issue, but there are certainly good makers. The trouble is much more likely to be with the lock than with the barrels, and having barrels regulated to a known modern load is a substantial advantage.

Ah yes, the old "blame the customer for the failure of our $30,000 rifle" strategy :D It's theoretically possible that the shooter's finger is passing through the first trigger as if it wasn't there to "bump" the rear trigger, but call me skeptical ;) Your test assumes the two locks are equally good. If it's the back trigger lock that's sketchy, your test will incorrectly OK the gun as safe.

The reality is that MANY double rifles have doubling problems. It's easy to see why - the sear for the 2nd barrel has to hold with the safety disengaged through massive recoil. That's a flaw in the basic double rifle (and double shotgun) design. It can be mitigated by increasing the sear engagement, but it will always be there.
Click to expand...

You do realize 450 and 470 NE both produce ~80% more thrust on the breach face than a standard 12 gauge. Even if the action is rated for 3.5 inch 12 gauge (highest operation pressure of all SAAMI shotgun chambers at 14,000 psi) the two NE cartridges are producing over 40% more thrust on the breach face. 450 or 470 NE in a 12 gauge action would be like subjecting the action to continuous shooting of 3.5 inch 12 gauge proof loads. No doubt some higher end action might tolerate that but a lot of actions are eventually going to come apart on you too.
 
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