Old Dog said:
I'm still pondering how a few here seem to believe that the out-of-the-box accuracy of any CZ can compare to that of a SIG, pistol for pistol. Perhaps some whose experience is only with CZ can shoot them with fair accuracy, but you take a shooter experienced in both pistols and the SIGs will generally deliver better accuracy ... that's my experience.
I like'm both, as I've said.
I also shoot (or did shoot) a good bit of IDPA. Don't see many SIGs in IDPA, which is meant to be a bit like real-life Civilian self-defense shooting. (I'll admit it's not, really, but it's more like it than IPSC [except, maybe, production] or BULLSEYE.) You don't see a lot of SIGs in any of those venues, except some marvelous SIG X-Fives in IPSC and USPSA. The SIG X-Fives are not your father's SIGs. They cost a lot more than your father's SIG. They are not typical of SIGs. At the recent (2014) IDPA Nationals, there were a number 97 Glocks (mostly 34s), 87 S&W Pros, 4 Springfield XDs, 22 STIs (1911-like guns), 21 CZs, and 49 1911s from various makers.
Not a single SIG. That should make some folks wonder why, if SIGs are so marvelous in the hands of savvy shooters like you, we don't see them in the gun game that most closely attempts to simulate the real world of self defense?
I have had a bunch of CZs and a bunch of SIGs. The SIGs included 3 or 4 P220s, a P220 Match, a P220 Super Match (sold this past weekend), several P226s, a P-239, a Gray Guns-tuned P-228r, a SIG P226 X-Five Competition in .40, a SIG GSR 1911, and a P-210-6. My only SIG at the moment is the Gray Guns P-228r, which is about as nice as you'll get without paying more than $2000; it will probably be up for sale in the next month or two. (To be replaced by a Sphinx SDP.)
The only one I miss of all of the guns now sold is the P-210-6, but that was a love-hate relationship: marvelous accuracy (a 1.75" five shot group at 55 yards on the proof target), but tiny sights, awkward mag release, a hammer that bites many hands, a safety lever that was too stiff, and sights that could cut you if you did a hand-over slide movement (I bled more than once in a match.) At one point in time I badly needed a second vehicle, and selling the P-210, a S&W 52-2, and a collectible Luger bought me a very nice pickup -- I missed all of three guns, but I needed good transportation.
I have only one CZ right now -- a mildly tuned 85 Combat. But I have had MANY CZs over the years: pre-Bs, Bs, several compacts, a CZ-40B, two CZ-100s (one in 9mm and one in .40 -- hated them both!) and a 97B. I've also had several Sphinx 2000 guns, and still have a well-tuned (semi-custom) AT-84s. I have also owned several Witnesses from a Sport Long Slide in .45 an .40, to a variety of 9mm, .40s, and .45s. The CZ 85 Combat is very nice, but the AT-84s may be the best of the bunch. I think the Sphinx SDP may be as good a shooter as the At-84s, and possibly more accurate -- but that's unresolved, right now.
I'd argue that you simply CAN'T make sweeping statements like you've made above, or like many of the CZ enthusiasts have made. When I read such unbalanced comment, I think there's more at play than just knowledge of the guns in question. I would argue that some guns fit some people better than other guns, and THAT is the variable that you simply can't address when making such claims.
I have two tuned S&W M&P Pros that are simply marvelous, and were I competing actively now, I'd probably be shooting them. I'm retired and don't have as much money for gun games (and ammo) as I once did...
I also have a Glock 38 (with only a Ghost trigger kit installed) which I shoot better than any .45 I've owned, including the P220 Super Match. (The P220 SM is more accurate from a rest, but I don't have a rest that I can carry with me when I carry concealed, or when I shoot in competition. Were I doing IDPA actively again, it would be the Glock 38 rather than the P220 SM if I felt like shooting .45. The Glock 38 is my home defense gun, kept in a small bedside gun safe for when things go bump in the night.
It's not as simple as X is better than Y when the shooter is an experienced shooter. That's BS.