KodiakBeer
member
Like people that collect East German or Argentine weapons? Oddly, the prices for those have gone through the roof.
CZ 82 Vs. Hi Power
- Thread starter sprice
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Like people that collect East German or Argentine weapons? Oddly, the prices for those have gone through the roof.
rellascout
member
+1
Look at the PW Arms Import mark...
Quote
"There will be no more Israeli marked HP's. There are people that collect Israeli weapons. The value will rise. This isn't rocket surgery. "
I can't see these IZI hi powers ever really going up in value to any significant amount.
Do you really think that there will be a high demand for these at every young boys Bar Mitzvah as a present.
"There will be no more Israeli marked HP's. There are people that collect Israeli weapons. The value will rise. This isn't rocket surgery. "
I can't see these IZI hi powers ever really going up in value to any significant amount.
Do you really think that there will be a high demand for these at every young boys Bar Mitzvah as a present.
KodiakBeer
member
How much are blue sky marked Garands worth now?
I'm not arguing the value of an importer marked vs a non-importer marked weapon, only that ALL weapons have value, and as time passes that value rises. The value of an import marked Luger will rise every year.
As I have pointed out (and am getting sort of tired of doing so), the last big hoorah of import pistols was in the 90's to early 2000's when ComBloc and Argentine pistols were being brought in. Those weapons were import marked. They have trebled (and quadrupled in some cases) in value.
Go to GunBroker and price a decent condition Systema Colt or East German Mak today. The Maks were $119 in the 90's. The Systema Colts were under $200.
rellascout
member
East German maks are considered the best of the breed. That is why they command the price they do currently.
Argy 1911s are some of the only available examples of the Colt M1911A1 1927 pattern guns. That is why they are valuable.
The majority of the Israeli BHPs carry distinctions like these... most are MKIII pistols just like the ones they make today.
the blue sky imports are worth $500-600 now and a real USA garand non import is $800-$1400 depending on manufacturer and condition.
There will always be a big difference between surplus imports and original GI bring backs or non imports.
These IZI hi powers have been imported 2 times in their history, if they could have been brought in without defacing with the crude import marks they would be worth more. But its the BATF law.
There will always be a big difference between surplus imports and original GI bring backs or non imports.
These IZI hi powers have been imported 2 times in their history, if they could have been brought in without defacing with the crude import marks they would be worth more. But its the BATF law.
dogtown tom
Member
Horsehockey.
Compare a Polished Blue Browning HP vs a Polished Blue FN HP and they are identical- I own both.
Compare a Matte Black Browning HP vs a Matte Black FN HP and you'll see the FN Matte Black is so much better that it is often confused with a blued finish. I own examples of each.
FNUSA sold both polished and matte finished Hi Powers, just as Browning Arms does now. All FN/Browning Hi Powers are off the same assembly line, differing only in the rollmark.
If you are comparing military contract HP's vs commercial HP's........true, the finish may be different per the contract spec's. But that isn't a fair comparison. I own two MkII Browning HP's that have the roughest factory finish (parkerized) you will see come out of FN....but pretty much all MkII Hi Powers have this finish (MkII's were intended for the mil/police market).
The reason CDNN sold those HP's for bargain basement prices was because FN decided that it didn't need to compete with itself by marketing the HP through two FN owned companies: Browning Arms and FNUSA. Those FNUSA Hi Powers? Since there are so few of them imported they go for way more than $500 now.
As far as never seeing CDNN liquidating a Browning? You haven't looked at their catalog in the last eight years have you?
Which proves what? That dealers/pawnshops/gun stores offer less than full value so they can profit off your sale? Uh....that's been common knowledge since......the first gun was ever traded.
If you had bothered checking out GunBroker you would see that those FN Hi Powers from CDNN are going for $600 and up.....used.
Many Hi Power collectors (like me) prefer our Hi Powers to not have the "Assembled in Portugal" markings on their HP. It is purely aesthetics...I don't like the "Warning...read your owners manual" or "point gun towards target" rollmarks on other firearms either. Having "Assembled in Portugal" on the slide is a definite detractor value wise.
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KodiakBeer
member
What did you say about E. German Maks ten years ago? I had two of them, and an Early Russian import with the fixed sites. I sold them for about what I pad for them - $125 (?). Now those same guns are worth $450 each.
I still have an early Russian SKS with the laminated stock. I don't remember what I paid for it, but probably about $150. Now, after a zillion Chinese and other ComBloc SKS's have come in, my Russian is worth at least 4 times what I paid for it. Not because it's "better" but because there are no more Russians available.
At any rate, I didn't buy my Izzy as an investment, I bought it as a shooter because it's 1/3rd the price of a new commercial Hi Power. Yet, I have no doubt that the value will rise unless I decide to refinish it...
KodiakBeer
member
They are Mark II's with the forged frames and slides, no longer being made. The Mark III have cast frames/slides and other changes.
The Russians command the same price or more - or at least the military ones rather the the run of commercials with adjustable sights.
KodiakBeer
member
They've doubled in value.
true - price goes up as supply is exhausted, but as long as browning continues to import and supply high quality hi powers , it will keep the izi hp at a lot lower level.
As for these russian and chinese sks, mak, tork, etc people are asking a high price for them, but no one is will to pay what they want.
chinese new ak47 , pressed in barrel , stamped reciever 80's price $250 worth a $1000 now, you can buy new arsenal ak for around $700, so who's going to pay that for a chinese ak.
Chinese sks, pressed in barrell, sap wood stocks, NIB WOOLWORTHS $75 1980's now asking $400-$600, is anyone going to pay that much for one, probably not,
So while the asking price has gone up on these imports, actually look at the auctions and track them and you will see no one is really buying them for the high price.
When was the last time you seen a YUGO car in show room condition fetching million dollars at any auction, never.
In order for an item to go up significantly in price, there has to be a high demand, not just rarity.
As for these russian and chinese sks, mak, tork, etc people are asking a high price for them, but no one is will to pay what they want.
chinese new ak47 , pressed in barrel , stamped reciever 80's price $250 worth a $1000 now, you can buy new arsenal ak for around $700, so who's going to pay that for a chinese ak.
Chinese sks, pressed in barrell, sap wood stocks, NIB WOOLWORTHS $75 1980's now asking $400-$600, is anyone going to pay that much for one, probably not,
So while the asking price has gone up on these imports, actually look at the auctions and track them and you will see no one is really buying them for the high price.
When was the last time you seen a YUGO car in show room condition fetching million dollars at any auction, never.
In order for an item to go up significantly in price, there has to be a high demand, not just rarity.
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dogtown tom
Member
The FN/Browning Hi Power has NEVER had a cast slide, it's always been forged.
.
rellascout
member
Simply not true. They sell for less than their Browning Marked counter parts. I never see the FN MKIIIs get over $550 where you see people sell and by Browning marked guns over $600 all the time.
Not liquidating a Browning Hi Power... Other Browning products yes. IIRC they are current selling BHPs at $699 which is a good price not a great one.
KodiakBeer
member
As in the Bulgy Maks keeping the Russian and German Maks at a lower level? Oops, I guess that didn't happen.
The basic facts are that I'm not going to spend a $1000 for a NIB Browning, when I can get the same pistol with a little holster wear for $385. I can't foresee how much the value of the izzy will rise, but I have no doubt it will be worth more than $385 five years from now. But, I don't really care - it's a shooter. I'm not willing to pay a $600 premium for a Browning advertisement on the slide.
rellascout
member
I assume he is misquoting the fact that MKIII BHPs have cast frames. Some early MKIIIs still have forged frames.
Slides have always been forged.
rellascout
member
Right but there are many who do and they I hate to break it to you are setting the market value for these guns.
Oh and you are right that $385 gun will be worth in the $425 range based on inflation alone. I doubt it will be much higher than that.
PS NIB Browning Hi Powers can be had for $700 overstating prices will not help to prove your point.
For $500-$600 you could have had an excellent condition browning hi power.
Here's a current auction I found on gun broker in a simple 5 minute search $525 this gun could have been yours. Only a $100 more than yours cost you. Not a $1000 as you claim, you can buy a new gloss ajustable sight model for for around $825 new at any dealer.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=204475577
Here's a current auction I found on gun broker in a simple 5 minute search $525 this gun could have been yours. Only a $100 more than yours cost you. Not a $1000 as you claim, you can buy a new gloss ajustable sight model for for around $825 new at any dealer.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=204475577
rellascout
member
Right $300 in 1980 adjusted for inflation = $886 in 2010. So in reality that blue sky imports value did not even keep up with inflation.
Fastcast
Member
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There's several makers of custom wood grips for the 82.
Replacement parts are available from CZ-USA and will be for quite some time, as long as they're still making the model 83.
Night sights are not a problem either since the 82 wears the same sights as the CZ75.....Just buy CZ75 night sights for your 82.
rellascout
member
I know marschal, omega and a few other make grips but I guess what I was saying was that none make grips that slim the profile of the CZ82.
I agree there are replacement parts but not really upgrade parts. For the BHP Novak, C&S as well as others make parts which improve on the design depending on your intended purpose.
I agree on the night sights. They are available due to parts commonality.
Fastcast
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Ok, got ya......That's why I've just stuck with the OEM plastics grips, even bought a new pair from CZ. From what I've heard the wood grips are thicker than the OEM. I think the OEM feel perfect in my hand and I love the ergo grooves up high for your thumb and forefinger. I don't like the cheesy high gloss but that can be nicely knocked off with a light bead blasting to give them a satin look......Much nicer. IMO
There's really nothing I'd change on the 82 except a better finish and night sights.
rellascout
member
I agree. They did a great job on the rest of the design...
SharpsDressedMan
member
About 4-5years ago, I got a nice used Browning/Potugal 9mm HP, polished blue with Herrett's grips for $435 delivered. In that time, I would say it has gone up at least 25% on the market, maybe even 50%. If no more BHP's come in to keep the market soft, and inflation continues, all HP's will keep going up. I expect an average Israeli gun might be $100 more in the next two years. That would be over 10% a year, based on a $400 gun. Better investment than CD's or US bonds.
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