CZ75B or Browning HP? Help

[Tecolote]

Friends, new and old, you have come from far...ah, wrong thread...

I'm trying to decide between a CZ75B and a Browning HP. So far I'm leaning towards the CZ:

1. I don't get hammer bite

2. It's cheaper than a Browning

3. I like that you can go cocked and locked or DA

4. It's cheaper than a Browning

5. It fits my hands better

6. It's cheaper than a Browning

But in the Browning's favor:

1. I've always wanted one

2. It fits my hand better than almost everything else

3. It's a classic still in use world wide

Do any of you own one or both? What has been your experience?

Where would be a good place to buy a NIB HP at a reasonable price?

Royal Marine Commando, 'Stan

 

[ether]

I'd give the nod to the Hi Power if money were no object and you simply wanted the very best between the 2 That said, I've never shot a CZ75 but here's what I know:

- the DA trigger reach is a tad too long for my slightly larger-than-average hands

- CZ75's are an outstanding value and probably almost equal to the Hi Power in reliability and accuracy

Also, if you've noticed the threads where people are asked to list their all time "Top 5" favorite autos or whatever, the Hi Power shows up somewhere in almost everyone's list, and it's usually near the top.

I haven't ruled out the possibility of getting a CZ75 someday but it's been pretty low on my list of "needs" simply due to the long DA trigger. My $.02

 

[ether]

Here's a really decent price on a NIB chromed Practical:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976088715.htm

 

[Flash Hole]

If money is an issuse go with the CZ, and then buy a FEG PJK-9HP
(Browning Clone)you should be able to get both for the price of the Browning alone. Both are good guns, and two is better than one.

JOHN

 

[10-Ring]

If $$ isn't an issue, go w/ the original...get the HP But from all accounts, the CZ is a nice performer.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Ugh...I'd rather jump off a tall cliff than make such a choice.

(internal struggle)

CZ, by a hair. Objective performance is a wash, CZ is cheaper.

- Chris

 

[Tom C.]

CZ-75 or HP

I have a CZ-75. It shoots nicely with the original barrel, but I did add Bomar sights. I have never been impressed with the HP, esp. the accuracy.

 

[Dobe]

I bought the 75 B SA in January. It is a great shooter. I like the single action. It feels good in the hand, and looks as good as the Browning.

I have had a BHP. I may have another some day. I am not sure.

Dobe

 

[schild]

I've owned both. Traded the HP for my first P7. I have a CZ85 that I find much easier to shoot than the HP. You can probably get a CZ75 and the Kadet conversion for the price of a new HP.

 

[goon]

I just recently traded my HP, but I still have the CZ and want another.
The CZ is easier to shoot because of its better trigger. Mine has proven to be way more accurate than my HP ever thought about being. But the HP is more than accurate enough to use as a defensive pistol.
The BHP is a good gun. Based on my experience, I wouldn't complain if I found myself using a HP. But given the choice, I would go CZ.
If it is the HP you want, save up and get it. I have found that you can't compromise when it comes to buying a gun. If you get the CZ and want the HP instead, you will just end up trading it off toward what you want.
Get what you want the first time.

 

[Ninj500]

Buy them both. You will eventually so you might as well accept it now. With one of each you won't have to make such a difficult choice!
FWIW, I'd keep my BHP over my CZ.

 

[mr. e]

A little over 2 years ago, I bought a Turkish Mil surplus CZ 75B from J&G sales complete with tritium night sights for less than $325. I bought the pistol because I was looking for a 9mm that was accurate enough for casual slow fire target shooting, and I'd heard good things about this pistol.

I wasn't really impressed. The CZ shot over 4" high at 15 meters and scattered rounds all over the target. It turns out that the night sights were aftermarket and not really matched to the pistol. Not only that, the rear sight was too small for the dovetail, and it kept drifting in spite of my efforts to keep it in place.

I kept the CZ, but bought a new Browning HP and sent it off to have the barrel crowned, adjustable sights, and some trigger work done. I figured that I'd work up the handload that gave this pistol its best accuracy, and practice, practice, practice. Although my shooting improved, I could never seem to get all 10 rounds where I wanted them in the target.

Eventually, my thoughts returned to the CZ. I sent the slide to MMC sights and had a set of their adjustables installed. Then I took both the CZ and the HP to the range together.

The HP has a much crisper trigger with absolutely no creep. I took out the mag disconnect, but it is still quite heavy. As such, it is especially sensitive to finger placement on the trigger and tends to push to the left (I'm right handed) unless I have a death grip on it and my finger is exactly in the right place on the trigger (past the second knuckle). The CZ has a grittier trigger, but once I got the feel for it I could tell exactly where it will break, so it's kind of like a two stage trigger. It's very consistent.

With custom handloads, the accuracy is close, but I'd give the HP the edge from the bench rest. With commercial loads shooting offhand, however, it's not even a contest. The HP is very fussy while the CZ's accuracy is consistent with about any load.

Now when I go out shooting for bullseyes, I take my CZ. If I want a little variety, I'll take the HP along, too.

 

[ojibweindian]

If money is a concern, get the CZ. If money is no object, get 2 CZs

 

[Rembrandt]

The original "double stacker"....for over 75 years the Browning has been in service to military and police forces worldwide....one of the greatest designs John Moses ever created. There is not a more elegant or more asthetic appealing 9mm (or 40). I currently own five BHP's...(4) 9mm's (1) 40SW....(one is a fully engraved Renaissance edition). Life is too short to own an cheap gun...spend the extra for a BHP, you won't regret it.

 

[goon]

There is a difference between underpriced and cheap.
The CZ is underpriced. But they are great. Register on just about any shooting forum and do a search. The results will almost always be the same: CZ's rock!
A jennings is cheap.
A High Power is an excellent handgun.The prices range from reasonable to ridiculous.
Register here http://www.fnhipower.com/ and check out their for sale section. If you had caught me 2 weeks ago, I could have sold you my MkIII. But it is now gone.
After you get the HP (judging from your "tone" I thnk that the HP will be the choice), go to Numrich gun parts and order a few of their stainless HP mags for $33.50 each. They are early Mec-Gars, as close as you get to factory mags for the HP without spending $80 each.
The south african 17 and 15 round mags from CDNN can be spotty, but CDNN will replace any problem mags without hesitation. A few of my 17 rounders needed to be polished with a flle and sand paper, but after that they were good to go. Stay away from D&E mags. They wouldn't even chamber a round in my HP or my brother's FEG.
Good luck.

Also, look around for an Argentine military HP. They were made under license and are real HP's that differ only in the country of origin. They go around $300. SOG used to sell them, but they don't have any listed on their site, so they must be out.
They still have the FEG HP knock offs for $199. My brother has one, and it is a hell of a gun for the $230 all together that he paid for it.
Watch the auction sites and see what you find.

 

[Coltdriver]

I had a CZ85 Combat. It was nice. Smooth and very accurate.

I sold it and purchased a real nice HP. Then I purchased another HP to shoot because the first one was just to beautiful to abuse by shooting. Its my only safe queen. But the second one sees regular use.

The biggest difference to me is in simplicity. Take a look at a CZ and think about detail stripping it. Good luck getting it back together

But there is a definite advantage in the DA/SA capability of the CZ if carry is your thing with a gun that large. I would also say that my CZ was more accurate than my HP's if an inch in the group makes a difference to you.

In either case, both represent the best (IMNSHO) hi cap 9mm's you can get today. Either way you will get your money back if you ever sell it.

The pricing on HP's is over rated. There were well over a million HP's made so they are by no means rare. Don't buy into that. Just have cash, take your time to learn what you are looking at, and be ready to buy. I picked up my unfired T series (now a safe queen) for $550 and my shooter MKIII for $400.

My vote is for the HP. You can always get a CZ later

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. If you have a preference, even slight, go with the one you prefer or you'll still be wondering and wanting. If that's the CZ, go for it. Mine are Pre-B's and with standard bbls and in the case of the 75 below, better sights added, they'll do what I require of them.

The "downside" to the CZ in my opinion is that they are more difficult to completely detail strip should you need to clean it thoroughly. The upside is that CZ-USA has very, very good customer service and support; sadly, Browning's does not compare in my experience. They feed about anything and shoot quite a bit tighter than their test targets frequently show.

On the other hand, IF you can find a Hi Power, it might be worth considering that they're not the easiest things to find these days, NIB. (The CZs show no signs of going extinct.) The last two, new Mk III pistols I saw last week were about the first I've seen in a year or two. I think they were marked about $529, which is more than the basic CZ-75B. They also had very good trigger pulls, something not seen too often on new HPs; I HOPE this is something that continues.

As you note, the Browning can bite the hand that fires it; they do mine. If I've got a good trigger pull with the existing hammer and sear, I just bob the hammer spur myself, clean up and shape the cut and blue. I also remove the right-side thumb safety lever as it gets in my way when shooting; others find it fine as is. This one has its magazine disconnect removed, inexpensive Uncle Mike (Butler Creek) grips and some skateboard tape. The target was shot at 25 yards and the flyers are my fault. It has the standard bbl, as does the CZ shown above although the CZ's has been hardchromed.

Either pistol will serve you well. Both actually might need a trigger job. The one CZ-75B I owned had a decent DA pull and an "OK" SA pull until right at the break where the internal firing pin safety glitched up the trigger pull. I'm told that Mike @ CZ-USA can do wonders on these pistols' triggers.

You'll find more aftermarket parts for the Hi Power, but nothing to compare to the 1911. There are fewer for the CZ...if that's a consideration. Whichever you do get, I'd sure get as many factory original-capacity magazines as I can afford.

Good luck and best.

 

[Tecolote]

Thanks for the great posts. I think I should wait for a HP because I've been wanting one for years. I passed on one about four years ago on sale in a local shop, Mk III NIB for $350. Been kicking myself every since. I made an impulse buy a few months ago instead of waiting for a HP. I realize that the CZ would be another impulse buy. Not that the CZs aren't first rate, they are, but I'm getting too old to put off the HP. I didn't know the hammer bite could be cured with a simple hammer bob. Now the search continues for a NIB HP.

PS When TFL went off air I didn't think that it could have a worthy successor. I was wrong!

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello.

Others do them more gracefully than I can at home, but what works for me is to bob the spur at the second lateral serration, stone the edges to shape and then cold blue. I heat the cold blue in a plastic bottle cap for about 3 to 5 seconds in my particular microwave before applying to the spur; seems to take and last better. The picture below shows an unaltered factory hammer (left) compared to one that's been cut down (right).

Another option that you might prefer is to use the Cylinder & Slide Type I abbreviated ring hammer. If you go this route, I'd suggest getting the sear, too. The factory sear/hammer are fine when used with each other, but the C&S parts are harder and using either a C&S sear and FN hammer or visa versa almost always results in a trigger-job that does not last long-term. Properly done, a trigger job using the factory parts or one using C&S parts works for many, many, many rounds...or have for me.

While the ring hammer from Cylinder & Slide does look better to me, I really have no particular preference. Neither bite me as do the unaltered factory spur hammer or the factory ring hammer.

Here's the C&S hammer in case you've not seen one.

Best.

 

[Tecolote]

Thank you

Mr Camp,

Thank you sir! I hope you don't mind but I printed and filed your post. I'll make sure to show them to my local smith when I get my HP.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, sir. No problem. Glad to've been of some help. Good luck and let us see your pistol when it's done as well as your impressions after shooting if not too much trouble.

Best.

 

[PCRCCW]

Mr Camp again sir you have impressed me with your even concise write ups....I love your Novak'd CZ and HP.....
As for which to get Im torn myself.....but you all know me for my ranting and raving about CZ's....even without the price.
Shoot well

 

[Wildalaska]

I like CZs..Ive owned them..they shoot good...they are a little to big for my hand....but regardless, excellent pistols...

But they are not HiPowers, thats their biggest flaw

 

[Wildalaska]

I like CZs..Ive owned them..they shoot good...they are a little to big for my hand....but regardless, excellent pistols...

But they are not HiPowers, thats their biggest flaw

 

[Dr.Rob]

I think I'd be torn on this one. I don't like the DA/SA action on many pistols, but the new CZ75 SA looks slick.

That being said, you can get an FM Argentine or FEG "clone" for less than the price of a surplus CZ.

CZ and FEG are probably the best value pistols for the money on the market. If you like the CZ, get it.

One advantage the HP has: magazines have been in production since 1935, and are relatively easy and cheap to find.