Im curious to see from all you pistol guru's, if you had a choice at just one or the other the 75b or hipower, which it would be and why, i know it's been asked before, i was absent that day, pls dont chime in with sig #1 or glock is #1 etc, i picked these 2 because there pretty close in design and looks...thx
Cz75b Vs Browning Hipower Both In Standard Models.
- Thread starter ge0624me
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I have shot a HiPower and bought an Armalite AR 24 (a 75b design).
I can't figure out the HiPower trigger story. I hear/read a lot about how good they are, and I think the pistols are absolutely beautiful. But I have shot two, and the triggers on both of them were the worst triggers I have experienced on any handgun.
One was probably stock - it was rental, and I assume that it had the magazine interconnect safety. But the other had been worked on - the magazine safety had been disconnected. The friend who had the HP that had been worked on said that the next step to improve the trigger was to move a pivot point (maybe on sear? hammer?), and my friend wasn't willing to do that. This friend has no kids in college
, so he's got plenty of money to spend on guns, but he wasn't comfortable with the level of modification.
On the other hand, there are a lot of folks on THR and other groups who rave about the HP trigger. Some of them claim a great trigger stock, some after a HP knowledgeable smith modifies it.
The only thing that I can figure out is that there is a lot of variance in the quality of HP triggers - if you get a good one, you'll get an excellent gun. If y get a bad one, you'll be on a 1st name basis with your smith. And the money will be heading his direction.
I couldn't afford to get any smithing done on a pistol. Unlike my friend, I do have kids in college. I decided to go for a trigger that would be more predictable than a stock HP. The Armalite does not have as nice a trigger as the HP's I have heard about, but it's got a trigger miles better than the HP's I have fired.
If you can test fire the HP before hand and it's a good one, buy it. They are classic beautiful weapons (in my opinion).
I am not pistol guru by any stretch of the imagination.
Mike
I can't figure out the HiPower trigger story. I hear/read a lot about how good they are, and I think the pistols are absolutely beautiful. But I have shot two, and the triggers on both of them were the worst triggers I have experienced on any handgun.
One was probably stock - it was rental, and I assume that it had the magazine interconnect safety. But the other had been worked on - the magazine safety had been disconnected. The friend who had the HP that had been worked on said that the next step to improve the trigger was to move a pivot point (maybe on sear? hammer?), and my friend wasn't willing to do that. This friend has no kids in college
, so he's got plenty of money to spend on guns, but he wasn't comfortable with the level of modification.On the other hand, there are a lot of folks on THR and other groups who rave about the HP trigger. Some of them claim a great trigger stock, some after a HP knowledgeable smith modifies it.
The only thing that I can figure out is that there is a lot of variance in the quality of HP triggers - if you get a good one, you'll get an excellent gun. If y get a bad one, you'll be on a 1st name basis with your smith. And the money will be heading his direction.
I couldn't afford to get any smithing done on a pistol. Unlike my friend, I do have kids in college. I decided to go for a trigger that would be more predictable than a stock HP. The Armalite does not have as nice a trigger as the HP's I have heard about, but it's got a trigger miles better than the HP's I have fired.
If you can test fire the HP before hand and it's a good one, buy it. They are classic beautiful weapons (in my opinion).
I am not pistol guru by any stretch of the imagination.
Mike
BlindJustice
Member
Compare & Contrast the Browning Hi Power vs CZ 75B
After John M. Browning went to Europe Post-World War One, he joined Fabrique Nationale in Belgium. Eropean countries were looking for
Semi-automatic service pistols after observing the handguns of the U.S
Expeditionary Forces with the M1911 and the German Army with the
P-08 LUger. JMB began work on a semi-auto but had to work around
the patents that Colt held on the M1911. The major differences are 1) the
trigger and two the cammed unlocking of the barrel instead of the barrel
link of the 1911. At the time of his death in 1927, he had completed two
prototypes. His successor at FN completed the pistol adding the double stack magazine, a feature JMB didn't think was needed, at the request of
the french. The french backed out, and the Belgian goverment subsequently adopted it and later the British Army. So, it has a trigger that goes up into
the slide and then back to release the sear/Hammer. The designer
Sainz escaped to Canada where he headed up the INgalls build BHP for the
ALlies in WWII. THe Germans kept the Belgians to keep making the
BHP for their own forces. It served the BRITs, AUssies and Canadians until
just recently a great service pistol. However the brit army had a standing
rule of only 12 in a mag. or yah got gigged - rliability issue, and it only
got an external exgtracgtor at the beginning -of the 1960s.
The CZ 75B - shares the double stack magazine and the cammed unlocking of the barrel also with no bushing but besides it looking similiar in profile from the side, the slide to frame design is different being based on the Peders design - which was used in the pistol adopted by the french after they bagged out on the deal with FN for the BHP. Later, the Sig P210 also had a
slide that has rails that fit inside the frame instead of the 1911/BHP slide
that fits around the frame from the outside. Some attribute this feature as
well as the CZ 75B/SIg P210 slide rials being full length addingt to the
design's accuracy. The CZ 75B also has a pivot trigger which is DA first
shot then SA as it goes back in the frame and has a sort of J or fish hook
shape if looked at from above. The CZ 75B also is a design using
space more efficiently with approx. the same barrel lenth, it's is slimmer
in the slide, has 3 more rds mag capacity as well as beeing just a bit
shorter in height.
how'z that?
Randall
After John M. Browning went to Europe Post-World War One, he joined Fabrique Nationale in Belgium. Eropean countries were looking for
Semi-automatic service pistols after observing the handguns of the U.S
Expeditionary Forces with the M1911 and the German Army with the
P-08 LUger. JMB began work on a semi-auto but had to work around
the patents that Colt held on the M1911. The major differences are 1) the
trigger and two the cammed unlocking of the barrel instead of the barrel
link of the 1911. At the time of his death in 1927, he had completed two
prototypes. His successor at FN completed the pistol adding the double stack magazine, a feature JMB didn't think was needed, at the request of
the french. The french backed out, and the Belgian goverment subsequently adopted it and later the British Army. So, it has a trigger that goes up into
the slide and then back to release the sear/Hammer. The designer
Sainz escaped to Canada where he headed up the INgalls build BHP for the
ALlies in WWII. THe Germans kept the Belgians to keep making the
BHP for their own forces. It served the BRITs, AUssies and Canadians until
just recently a great service pistol. However the brit army had a standing
rule of only 12 in a mag. or yah got gigged - rliability issue, and it only
got an external exgtracgtor at the beginning -of the 1960s.
The CZ 75B - shares the double stack magazine and the cammed unlocking of the barrel also with no bushing but besides it looking similiar in profile from the side, the slide to frame design is different being based on the Peders design - which was used in the pistol adopted by the french after they bagged out on the deal with FN for the BHP. Later, the Sig P210 also had a
slide that has rails that fit inside the frame instead of the 1911/BHP slide
that fits around the frame from the outside. Some attribute this feature as
well as the CZ 75B/SIg P210 slide rials being full length addingt to the
design's accuracy. The CZ 75B also has a pivot trigger which is DA first
shot then SA as it goes back in the frame and has a sort of J or fish hook
shape if looked at from above. The CZ 75B also is a design using
space more efficiently with approx. the same barrel lenth, it's is slimmer
in the slide, has 3 more rds mag capacity as well as beeing just a bit
shorter in height.
how'z that?
Randall
Tribal
Member
I like the grip of the CZ-75b better than that of the BHP Mk.III, but the BHP conceals better. I also like the BHP (without disconnect) trigger better, but I know there are recurved CZ triggers available.
Line Rider
Member
Go with the one that fits you hand best. I'd have to go with the CZ -75, because I get BAD chase of side bite from a BHP.
Furncliff
Member
I picked the CZ. The High Power I tested was difficult to rack ( my hands are a little arthritic). And the grip was too short for my size large + hands.
In contrast the CZ was immediately comfortable, I've had to do nothing to the grips (two of my pistols have Pach's on them). I like the .22 conversion I have for the CZ and I use it alot. If I bought a new CZ tomorrow I would have someone like Angus do a trigger on on it. I've massaged mine to where it's acceptable, but...
In contrast the CZ was immediately comfortable, I've had to do nothing to the grips (two of my pistols have Pach's on them). I like the .22 conversion I have for the CZ and I use it alot. If I bought a new CZ tomorrow I would have someone like Angus do a trigger on on it. I've massaged mine to where it's acceptable, but...
belus
Member
Some of this is speculation since I have a BHP and a pre-B CZ 75.
I think my order of preference would be SA CZ over the BHP, over the SA/DA CZ. Unless I needed to carry it, then the HP wins for it's slimness.
I think my order of preference would be SA CZ over the BHP, over the SA/DA CZ. Unless I needed to carry it, then the HP wins for it's slimness.
BlindJustice
Member
FYI - I had a BHP in the late 70s/early 80s, it was a civilian model the first with the adju. rear sight that was dovetailed in but sat more on top
of the slide than 'in' it, with a higher ramp front. I liked the grip shape, but
also had a 1911 Combat Commander in .45 ACP and just didn't warm up to
the high lbs. stock trigger, or the 9MMx19 round It didn't like Win Silvertip with stovepipes liked Federal JHPs better, but it ate all the Rem JHps at least that's the way that particular BHP was, The kids were young and money got tight and it was sold.... they are handsome Big Nines.
I got a CZ 75B mid-May - it just went over 900 rds of 100% reliable with every type of FMJ and JHP I've found to feed it. My first DA/SA and
I like it loaded in DA mode for the nightstand gun - the Model 60 is now a
backup and wouldn't you like to know where it's hid, but 15 rds 9mm 147 gr.
vs 5 rds .38 Special +P no contest.
Basic blued CZ 75B was about $500 - my shooting buddy has tried it and
he wants one, and he has a G19. He said several gun shop guys say oh,CZ 75 that's what everybody is asking about - hard to get them.
Haven't priced a BHP - but if I ever get serious about a .40 S&W I'd
like another BHP.
Oh, the handgun the French went with was the MAB 35
and the last firearm JMB designed to finish was his superb
be still my heart Browning Superposed Over/Under shotgun.
that's one drop dead gorgeous weapon.
Randall
of the slide than 'in' it, with a higher ramp front. I liked the grip shape, but
also had a 1911 Combat Commander in .45 ACP and just didn't warm up to
the high lbs. stock trigger, or the 9MMx19 round It didn't like Win Silvertip with stovepipes liked Federal JHPs better, but it ate all the Rem JHps at least that's the way that particular BHP was, The kids were young and money got tight and it was sold.... they are handsome Big Nines.
I got a CZ 75B mid-May - it just went over 900 rds of 100% reliable with every type of FMJ and JHP I've found to feed it. My first DA/SA and
I like it loaded in DA mode for the nightstand gun - the Model 60 is now a
backup and wouldn't you like to know where it's hid, but 15 rds 9mm 147 gr.
vs 5 rds .38 Special +P no contest.
Basic blued CZ 75B was about $500 - my shooting buddy has tried it and
he wants one, and he has a G19. He said several gun shop guys say oh,CZ 75 that's what everybody is asking about - hard to get them.
Haven't priced a BHP - but if I ever get serious about a .40 S&W I'd
like another BHP.
Oh, the handgun the French went with was the MAB 35
and the last firearm JMB designed to finish was his superb
be still my heart Browning Superposed Over/Under shotgun.
that's one drop dead gorgeous weapon.
Randall
BlindJustice
Member
Additional about the CZ 75/B
Jeff Cooper reviewed one in the late '70s and gave it his
approval with a well, if yah have to have a DA/SA this is the
best he had tried to that point, it had the Cooper approved
1911 like the BHP and 1911 frame mounted thumb safety.
SO it was one of the first of the Wonder Hi-Cap Nines of the
late '70s/early 80s when several other platforms along those
lines were introduced. However, the CZ 75 was highly prized
but was made behind the Iron CUrtain - some came in via
Canada garnering a $1000 price tag if you could find one.
Springfield ARmory made a copy for a time. The fall of
Communism and the addition in the early '90s begat the
75B with the firing pin block.
ANgus & Ghost Holsters/Products offer great support and
aftermarket parts as does CZUSA for CUstomer Service.
including slim flat grips in Coco Bolo wood - the stock grips
have a palm swell as well as ambi thumb rest.
Both the BHP and CZ 75B have stubby thumb safeties not
as user friendly as the 1911 but they do have them for
cocked and Locked carry
Randall
Jeff Cooper reviewed one in the late '70s and gave it his
approval with a well, if yah have to have a DA/SA this is the
best he had tried to that point, it had the Cooper approved
1911 like the BHP and 1911 frame mounted thumb safety.
SO it was one of the first of the Wonder Hi-Cap Nines of the
late '70s/early 80s when several other platforms along those
lines were introduced. However, the CZ 75 was highly prized
but was made behind the Iron CUrtain - some came in via
Canada garnering a $1000 price tag if you could find one.
Springfield ARmory made a copy for a time. The fall of
Communism and the addition in the early '90s begat the
75B with the firing pin block.
ANgus & Ghost Holsters/Products offer great support and
aftermarket parts as does CZUSA for CUstomer Service.
including slim flat grips in Coco Bolo wood - the stock grips
have a palm swell as well as ambi thumb rest.
Both the BHP and CZ 75B have stubby thumb safeties not
as user friendly as the 1911 but they do have them for
cocked and Locked carry
Randall
i have both a cz75 and an fn hi-power. the fn is in my opinion a higher quality pistol.
the grip on the cz75 is more comfortable for me. the grip is longer so i don't have to cram my fingers on it like i do with the high power.
i get hammer bite from the cz75 not the high power.
the grip on the cz75 is more comfortable for me. the grip is longer so i don't have to cram my fingers on it like i do with the high power.
i get hammer bite from the cz75 not the high power.
Cliff47
Member
I also own and shoot both the BHP and the CZ75B.
I find the BHP has a slightly lower bore axis, and seems almost an "elegant" point to it. Mine has the magazine disconnect still installed, and with enough shooting the trigger will smooth out. Before I get too off-target, mine is a Belgian slide on an Argentine (FM) frame.
The CZ75B is an all-business pistol that has improved on the BHP ergonomics and manual safety location (I know, the itty bitty BHP manual safety is a pain). The pistol is scarey accurate and disgustingly reliable, just what you want to have on your belt when the whatsis hits the rotary oscillator.
I feel comfortable carrying/shooting either one. Whatever drops you hammer, so to speak.
I find the BHP has a slightly lower bore axis, and seems almost an "elegant" point to it. Mine has the magazine disconnect still installed, and with enough shooting the trigger will smooth out. Before I get too off-target, mine is a Belgian slide on an Argentine (FM) frame.
The CZ75B is an all-business pistol that has improved on the BHP ergonomics and manual safety location (I know, the itty bitty BHP manual safety is a pain). The pistol is scarey accurate and disgustingly reliable, just what you want to have on your belt when the whatsis hits the rotary oscillator.
I feel comfortable carrying/shooting either one. Whatever drops you hammer, so to speak.
I have both and prefer the CZ.
The Hi-Power is a classic design, beautiful, clean lines, hi-capacity, pretty good trigger (mine has no magazine disconnect).
The CZ is also a classic design, beautiful, robust, higher capacity (16 or 19 rounds these days), also good triggers.
I think the CZ is a more durable gun, and it fits my hand better. I prefer the DA/SA capability over the SA only Hi-Power. I also like the increase in capacity, because capacity in 9mm's is very important IMO.
The grip of the CZ has a small foot or flare at the bottom that helps with hand placement ever so slightly, it just feels better than the Hi-Power.
There is a lot to be said for the CZ being able to be carried cocked and locked with the safety on or hammer down for a DA first shot. I've fired more than one hard primer with a follow-up DA strike too.
While they look similar, they are very different designs as has already been noted by BlindJustice (nice work there).
The Hi-Power is a classic design, beautiful, clean lines, hi-capacity, pretty good trigger (mine has no magazine disconnect).
The CZ is also a classic design, beautiful, robust, higher capacity (16 or 19 rounds these days), also good triggers.
I think the CZ is a more durable gun, and it fits my hand better. I prefer the DA/SA capability over the SA only Hi-Power. I also like the increase in capacity, because capacity in 9mm's is very important IMO.
The grip of the CZ has a small foot or flare at the bottom that helps with hand placement ever so slightly, it just feels better than the Hi-Power.
There is a lot to be said for the CZ being able to be carried cocked and locked with the safety on or hammer down for a DA first shot. I've fired more than one hard primer with a follow-up DA strike too.
While they look similar, they are very different designs as has already been noted by BlindJustice (nice work there).
Norinco982lover
Member
Prefer the CZ (which is the first pistol i've ever owned). Probably won't get the HP for awhile, at least not until I expand my collection with some different calibers/sizes of handguns.
DWhitehorne
Member
I'll chime in on the CZ side also. I have had 2 FM's and a MK3 and sold them all and still have 2 CZ's. Like most have said the Hi Power is a beautiful weapon but the CZ 75 fits my hand like a glove. One thing I didn't read in the above posts. With my thumbs forward shooting style the pin holding the safety on the MK3 would dig into the inside of my thumb until it was raw. I've shot my CZ85 until it was almost too hot to hold and never had a problem. David
rellascout
member
BHP all the way.
The ergos fit me perfectly. The Cz 75B does not.
There is no one answer because your hands are not the same as mine.
The ergos fit me perfectly. The Cz 75B does not.
There is no one answer because your hands are not the same as mine.
Gunsnrovers
Member
I've owned both and loved my CZ, but the BHP fits me better.
Both top notch pistols.
The CZ is certainly a best buy at the price it sells for. BHP's were finally well priced when FN marketed them a few years ago. Now we're back to higher Browning prices with spotty availability.
Both top notch pistols.
The CZ is certainly a best buy at the price it sells for. BHP's were finally well priced when FN marketed them a few years ago. Now we're back to higher Browning prices with spotty availability.
BHPshooter
Member
I like both, and will eventually have both... but the BHP has a place in my heart.
That is mostly correct. There IS a lot of variance on new BHP triggers. Of all of 'em that I've had (6, still have 3), removal of the mag disconnect was the magic trick. The majority of them are very good at this point (and all of mine have been). A few still have heavy triggers afterward, but there are a lot of things that can be done -- I have done all of these myself, and have never needed to do the C&S "improved leverage" sear lever.
FWIW, all of mine have the disconnects gone, and my carry HP has a trigger straight from my dreams. Better than the trigger on many 1911s, and Nightcrawler routinely tells me he thinks so, too.
They're not beyond help.
As to the original question, the only true answer is to get both. You probably will someday, it's just deciding which one to get first.
Wes
That is mostly correct. There IS a lot of variance on new BHP triggers. Of all of 'em that I've had (6, still have 3), removal of the mag disconnect was the magic trick. The majority of them are very good at this point (and all of mine have been). A few still have heavy triggers afterward, but there are a lot of things that can be done -- I have done all of these myself, and have never needed to do the C&S "improved leverage" sear lever.
FWIW, all of mine have the disconnects gone, and my carry HP has a trigger straight from my dreams. Better than the trigger on many 1911s, and Nightcrawler routinely tells me he thinks so, too.
They're not beyond help.
As to the original question, the only true answer is to get both. You probably will someday, it's just deciding which one to get first.
Wes
atblis
Member
I've had both.
Still have CZs. Will have more CZs.
Have no Hipowers and will not be getting any.
Figure the rest out.
Still have CZs. Will have more CZs.
Have no Hipowers and will not be getting any.
Figure the rest out.
BlindJustice
Member
For the O.P. - the reference to C & S = Cylinder & SLide - this shop
has worked on Browning Hi Powers offering trigger jobs, and
pacages for something over 25 years - they aren't cheap but
they do have a lot of knowledge about working on a BHP. They
offered an aftermarket thumb safety and other items like 1911s
have sooner than many other firms.
Randall
has worked on Browning Hi Powers offering trigger jobs, and
pacages for something over 25 years - they aren't cheap but
they do have a lot of knowledge about working on a BHP. They
offered an aftermarket thumb safety and other items like 1911s
have sooner than many other firms.
Randall
thx all those post...
well, i do have both, my 75b is o/d color very nice, one of my first serious pistols,would'nt part with it, now to the bhp, i just recently picked up a used bhp belgium made standard with the wood grips,imaculate cond, from an individual got a very good deal on it to,one of the most beautiful pistols i've ever owned, so to answer my own question there both great pistols, in there own unique way...
well, i do have both, my 75b is o/d color very nice, one of my first serious pistols,would'nt part with it, now to the bhp, i just recently picked up a used bhp belgium made standard with the wood grips,imaculate cond, from an individual got a very good deal on it to,one of the most beautiful pistols i've ever owned, so to answer my own question there both great pistols, in there own unique way...
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