D2 steel

[dmazur]

New to "Non-Firearm Weapons"...after reading for a few hours, I realized there are some folks here who are quite knowledgeable about knives ( )

I have a few folders and one non-folder, and they are all ATS-34 or VG-10.

I just got a Benchmade Activator+ and it's D2.

I understand this is a tougher steel than VG-10, but it isn't quite as corrosion resistant.

What should I use to control rust, other than trying to keep it dry?

 

[xm21]

Just keep it dry.I have a Bob Dozier skinning knife made of D-2 and it shows no sign of rust after 6 years of use.The only oil that has ever been on it comes from sharpening on a Norton fine india benchstone.It is washed with soap and water after sharpening to remove all traces of oil.

 

[arcticap]

I don't know if D2 "needs" protection or not. But if some environments are riskier than others and protection is desired, then consider using EEZOX.

http://www.eezox.com/knife-care.html

EEZOX® weighs 10.42 pounds per gallon - squirt or spray EEZOX® into a container of water and it will sink to the bottom. This density prevents water from penetrating the thin layer of EEZOX® and from reacting with the metal to form rust. Because of the hydrocarbon oil content of other products, they will "float" on water. Therefore, water penetrates this oil layer and rests on the metal surface. The water then reacts with oxygen and the metal surface to form rust.

Our research clearly shows over 75% of gun owners are not satisfied with gun care products presently being used. Compare this to the 98.7% of EEZOX® users who are greatly satisfied

http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html

http://www.eezox.info/truth.html

 

[dmazur]

Thanks.

 

[Demitrios]

First and foremost you need to ask yourself what you're going to be doing with the knife. After you've answered that question you need to decide which knife is the proper size for the job. Now we can get moving to steels. D@ is the steel of choice for Kershaw when making their Outcast, a great knife for the price (you can pick one up for around $55 if you look hard) however I myself am particular to S30V steel. It's much cheaper than S90V, pretty much corrosion proof (although all knives should be corrosion proof if you take care of them properly) and it's a tough steel that's pretty easy to sharpen AND holds an edge. Not to take any thing away from D2 but if I were to buy a knife that was between 5 to 15 inches long I'd be perfectly comfortable with D2.

 

[hso]

I understand this is a tougher steel than VG-10

Maybe. So much depends upon heat treat and composition that we can't always say "A" is tougher than "B".

What should I use to control rust, other than trying to keep it dry?

There are a wide range of products from those offered by Sentry Solutions to floor wax to plain old mineral or olive oil (and a huge range beyond those examples). As has been said, it may just be that you need to dry it off.

 

[Zeke/PA]

My personal opinion is that for a knife steel, D-2, a World War I vintage die steel, is unsurpassed as far as a knife steel goes.

The high Chromium content gives the material rust RESISTANCE and the steel has a very high resistance to abrasion.

I have, in my 50 or so years as a toolmaker, made a lot of stuff from D-2 to cut, pierce or bend other metals.
The steel really shows it's good points when used in the paper industry as slitters etc, to cut VERY abrasive paper.
As a semi-pro knife maker, I made several knives from D-2 and the only complaint from a client was the difficulty in sharpening a D-2 blade.

ALL knives need care, a light coating of oil before storage won't hurt.

 

[alaskanativeson]

Zeke, I almost agree with you. D2 (and more specifically, CPM-D2) is my second favorite knife steel. Busse's INFI steel is, to me, the stuff legends are made of. Of course the only knife you'll get made of INFI is a Busse, and not everyone is willing to pay that kind of price.

But from what I've seen, properly heat-treated D2 is about as perfect as you can get with knife steel. Of course, there lies the rub: Heat treating can make or break almost any knife. If you're lucky enough to get a knife that's been heat treated by Paul Bos (like one of Valkman's knives) you know you can trust the steel to have the right heat treatment. However if you get a knife that's been poorly hardened, it doesn't matter if it's made from 440, D2, Infi, or adamantium, it's going to be so soft it won't hold an edge or so hard it'll chip and/or break.

The 1970s & 1980s is a time period for our country that helped damn near ruin the cutlery industry. it seemed like everyone had to jump on the "stainless" bandwagon which, of course, gave us almost two decades of knives that "never" rusted (though it did happen) but got dull really quickly and couldn't be resharpened without as much effort as it took to build a whole new knife. Even one of our nation's gold standards for knives, Buck, used some really crappy steel for a while. I gave my brother-in-law a Buck 119 for a Christmas present one year. It took him one hunting season's worth of gutting and skinning for him to abandon that beautiful knife for his dad's old Schrade (which I now have, and have no problem cleaning an animal with it.) I guess that's a long story to say that stainless steel sucks for knives. Or at least did for a while.

There are some newer "super stainless" which are pretty good. BG42 is really good, CPM154 is great, and S30V is also really good. Of course it still depends on the heat treatment. I have a Graham Brothers Drop Point that was heat treated by Bos which has an edge so sharp you can nick yourself just by looking at it. It's seen some action but can still smoothly shave hairs off my arm. On the other hand, one of my favorite knives, my Benchmade/Doug Ritter Mini-Griptilian with an S30V blade has a noticeable nick in the blade and I've never done anything to abuse it. It's going back to Benchmade, and I have no doubt they'll either re-profile the blade or just replace it. I'll keep you updated.

If there's a positive side of the stainless debacle, it's that it caused a renaissance of plain old high carbon steel blades on knives. Simple blades like RAT Cutlery's series have shown that there's a reason that 1095 steel was used successfully for so long. I have to say, RAT is one of my favorite knife companys today.

 

[Zeke/PA]

alaskanativeson,
A few years back, I worked with the Edgecraft Corporation, a local concern when they were doing extensive research regarding their upcoming manufacture of kitchen cutlery.
A knife sharpener that they manufactured made it possible to duplicate time after time a faceted cutting edge and I actually built a machine to do the hum-drum job of drawing a blade thru a test medium.
Various steels, both carbon and stainless were tested and the top two selections were the then Crucible made 154CM and of course the venerable D-2 which came thru the cutting tests with flying colors.
The company however chose to use 154CM (ATS-34) mainly because, considering eventual kitchen use, the steel offered a much better resistence to rust.
The company markets an exceptional and very well researched grade of cutlery along with several knife sharpeners under the trade name of Chef's Choice.

 

[conw]

Don't ever store metal tools long-term with fingerprints, fingerprints will cause rust in almost anything.

 

[JTW Jr.]

Zeke , so what Edgecraft calls Trizor® steel is actually 154cm ?

That would explain the pricing on them then I guess...hmmm maybe instead of making the wife a new set of knives.... I can buy them

 

[Zeke/PA]

JTW Jr.
The "Trizor" that you refer to is in fact a description of the "faceted" edge that their sharpeners put on a blade.
There are actually three different angles therein , the idea being that if you merely wish to "touch up" the knife only the last "station" in the sharpener is necessary.
154 CM, a Crucible Steel, Space Age development is no longer made in the U.S.A. hence ATS-34 , the Japanese designation is used.
The famed knifemaker Bob Loveless, attracted by the high tensile strength rating of 154 CM (upwards of a million p.s.i.) is responsible for first bringing the alloy to the attention of the cutlery industry.

 

[JTW Jr.]

Crucible is still making 154Cm , along with the newer CPM154....and also CPM D2

ATS-34 is the japanese equal , made by Hitachi if I recall.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Crucible at one time stopped the 154 CM.
I guess maybe there is again enough demand but also the specialty steels are what's keeping the U.S. companies in business. e.g. Carpenter Steel in Reading PA.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

D2 is a tough tool steel, but it is not stainless. VG-10 is a tough stainless.

Both are outstanding for knife blades. I personally prefer VG-10, but part of that is because Spyderco uses VG-10 in the majority of its knives, and I like Spyderco a lot.

 

[JTW Jr.]

Zeke , though could be very well be the case , but I did buy some recently. Though I don't mind using ATS34 instead , I do like D2 and have used it the most thus far. With the Paul Bos HT it is performing very well if I do my part making it into a knife.

Crucible did file for Chapter 11 back in May of this year , hopefully they will pull thru.

 

[Zeke/PA]

The presense of glass in recycled paper makes paper very abrasive to a cutting edge.
In my day, I have made slitters to cut literally MILES of paper.
The steel of choice??
Good Ole' D-2